Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

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Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby bolero » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:11 am

New Delhi: Former chairman of selectors Sandeep Patil may have been scathing in his criticism for YoYo test being a benchmark for getting into the Indian team but head coach Ravi Shastri and skipper Virat Kohli made their stand clear – you pass the test, you play for India.

While Shastri in his inimitable manner was clear that YoYo test is here to stay, Kohli said that one should look at it as a "hard call" that benefits the team rather than being emotional.

Recently, one of IPL's top scorers Ambati Rayudu failed to clear the 16.1 mark despite scoring 600 plus runs in IPL. This sparked a debate with former selection committee chairman Patil openly questioning the policy decision.

When Shastri was asked at the team's pre-departure media interaction ahead of the UK tour, he was straight forward in his response.

"You have a certain ability but if you are fit then you can enhance it. That's why we emphasise on YoYo test. If anyone thinks that this is a one-off thing, he is sadly mistaken. He can take a walk," Shastri said in his typical no-nonsense style.

Recently, one of IPL's top scorers Ambati Rayudu failed to clear the 16.1 mark despite scoring 600 plus runs in IPL. This sparked a debate with former selection committee chairman Patil openly questioning the policy decision.

When Shastri was asked at the team's pre-departure media interaction ahead of the UK tour, he was straight forward in his response.

"You have a certain ability but if you are fit then you can enhance it. That's why we emphasise on YoYo test. If anyone thinks that this is a one-off thing, he is sadly mistaken. He can take a walk," Shastri said in his typical no-nonsense style.

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby bolero » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:12 am

"Philosophy is simple – you pass you play, you fail, you fail. This is not going to go anywhere. The captain leads from the front, selectors are on same page, entire team management is on the same page and boys have responded tremendously well," the former India captain made it clear as to where he stood on the issue.

Speaking in the same vein, Kohli cited an example as to how the YoYo test parameter has been a proof of stamina and endurance for a fast bowler like Jasprit Bumrah.

"People might not be able to see a small thing that happens when you play a particular Test match but I think that makes a massive difference," Kohli said.

"We are a team that wants to travel well. Jasprit Bumrah was bowling 144 kmph in his last spell during the final Test. That's when one's fitness comes in. When you have people who are fit, hungry and ready, then you are not only competing but also winning matches," the skipper added.

"Either you get emotional and let go (chuck) a policy or taking hard calls and moving ahead with the system. All those things have come together nicely and we are looking forward towards playing some real hard cricket. We are looking forward towards playing difficult cricket as that's the only way we will be able to test ourself as a team," Kohli signed off.

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby squarecut » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:49 am

The standards set by BCCI for Yoyo test is quite relaxed at 16.1. Other countries have far stringent standards for Yoyo test. Even Pakistani standard for Yoyo test is more stringent. If Ambati Rayudu cannot reach the relaxed standard set by BCCI then it means that he does not belong to International level and he is at best a domestic and IPL bully. And so he has been rightly given the boot.

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby Paddles » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:13 am

Teams have different speed levels as qualifying marks. India have set 16:1 as the qualifying speed level, which means it is mandatory for their players to finish the first shuttle of speed level 16, which in terms of accumulated distance is 1120 metres. Pakistan's minimum level is now 17:4; West Indies are at 19, and New Zealand probably have the highest level, 20:1.

A yo-yo test also helps measure the aerobic capacity of a player. "We use it to show them how fit they are," Chris Donaldson, the New Zealand strength and conditioning coach, says. "The major physical components of cricket are based around aerobics, strength, speed, so how fit, fast and strong they are are the components we train for a cricketer so that they don't break. This way, they can play the game for longer and faster and they can do things like stop the ball, take a miracle catch or run between wickets faster."

In New Zealand, all cricketers, international and domestic, are subject to yo-yo testing. Like Luden, Donaldson too arrived at 20:1 based on the average scores of New Zealand players. Passing a yo-yo test is not a prerequisite for selection in New Zealand, however.

All the strength and conditioning coaches agree that age does not normally have much of a bearing on the results of yo-yo tests. Misbah-ul-Haq, Luden says, got to 18:5 without any fuss in his farewell series, at the age of 42. Ashish Nehra, who retired at 39 recently, clocked 18:4 during a yo-yo test earlier this year - reportedly better even than the likes of Virat Kohli at the time. Ravindra Jadeja, India's best fieldsman, reportedly clocked 16:1, and it is understood that Manish Pandey has set the Indian benchmark, with 19:1.

Has the yo-yo test made a difference to the Indian team on the field? A BCCI official says the impact of the test is evident in the improving standards of Indian players. "Any player who covers 20 metres in less than three seconds it is hugely helpful," he says. "It helps the fielders pursue and grab difficult catches on the boundary line. Say a guy whose level is 15, and if there is a catch that is about 15 metres away, he might just get his fingertips to it. But somebody who covers 20 metres in 2.8 or 2.9 seconds, for him the same catch will be easy.


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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby Paddles » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:22 am

I think it is smart given all of India's talented batsmen and spinners to bring this in as a way of valuing the more team reflective efforts in the field and running between the wickets (as that effects the batting partner).

But I am not sure that minimum needs to be mandatory. I don't see NZ dropping Ross Taylor for ODI or tests anytime soon even if he was failing the test (and I have no idea whether he does or doesn't pass the yo-yo test), whereas Ish Sodhi knew from Hesson that he had to improve his batting and fielding if he wanted to play more ODI cricket. A key strength for NZ under the McCullum era was the fielding was simply at the best standard in the world.

We all know fielding makes a big difference. But a yoyo test won't stop dropped easy catches. But it may save a lot of boundaries and contribute to some more brilliant catches in the outfield.
"Your inclination to assume and contradict is typical of Narcissism which is nothing about being pretty like the Narcissus fable."

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby raja » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:21 am

It sure has its value.
Of course, it's rather convenient that this has all come up after the likes of Tendulkar and Ganguly stopped playing international cricket.
I'd like to have seen Tendulkar being dropped for failing the yo-yo test.
Of course, at that time, they'd have set the bar at his level.

So yes, I do think it will help fitness and push players more - but the BCCI sceptic in me wonders why it wasn't around in Tendulkar's time.

There's always a possibility though that it wouldn't have been made mandatory then.
Can afford to make it mandatory now - the likes of Rayudu are most expendable, and yo-yo can be used as a legit reason.

Now expecting poorer players to get picked cos they passed the yo-yo test.
Suits me, if it helps BCCI lose more. :-)

(Note: I know Tendulkar was a fitness freak right upto the last day he played for BCCI. Every chance he'd have passed the test. But in the absence of data supporting this, I'm not going to miss a trolling opp. :-))

Btw, any idea when this yo-yo test was first introduced in any country for cricket?

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby squarecut » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:56 am

Yo to test is basically a test of endurance. People scoring well in yo yo test are likely to show as much energy towards the end of a day as they would show towards the beginning of the day. Showing energy towards the end of the day is what often separates chokers from non chokers.

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby Going South » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:22 pm

Here’s what the test entails.

1. The test was developed by Danish soccer physiologist Jens Bangsbo and is a variation of the beep test that is used to evaluate an individual’s aerobic endurance fitness.

2. The Indian cricket team regularly undergoes a series of fitness tests and the BCCI isn’t the only body to rely on the ‘Yo-Yo’ endurance test. The Australia and England cricket teams too analyse players’ fitness using this test.

3. There are two versions of the test, level one for beginners and level two for advanced. The level two fitness test involves cones placed to mark out two lines, 20 meters apart. The player has to run between the lines and turn when the beep goes off.
The pace of the beeps quicken after each minute and if the player does not reach the line in time, he or she must catch up within two more beeps.

4. The test is considered ‘stopped’ if the person fails to catch up with the pace of the beeps. The entire process is software-based and the results are recorded.

5. The same test, when used for football and hockey players, produce different results and have a higher benchmark as the speed and endurance level involved with the sports also differ.

6. While the BCCI has kept 19.5 as the par score for the players to pass the test, it was reported that Yuvraj Singh could only manage to score 16, which is way below par. Virat Kohli and Manish Pandey aced the test, with a score of 19 and 19.2, according to reports. cricketers Yuvraj Singh and Suresh Raina failed the endurance test, which served as one of the primary reasons for their ouster from the Sri Lanka tour.

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby Going South » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:32 pm

i was wondering. A player like Chris Gayle would sure fail this test. but for T20 he can win the game single handed. that should not be a reason for his exclusion, if he has shown good result within the year earlier. (?)

To me, the test is good for younger players but not for seniors in form. If any player can make it to top 10 rating for ICC player ranking for batting or bowling they should be automatic selection even if they fail a stupid test. In cricket experience do count!! You should relax test bench mark based on experience.

But when you ask a brand new player to pass the test prior to entering the team as a must-do, it makes the team overall fit and over years when they turn seniors that “work ethic” to be fit would give dividends. we all can see transformation of BCCI team to be more fit compared to last decade. It’s like baby elephants tied with a tiny rope from childhood would make even huge elephants not pull and run away.

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby raja » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:40 pm

It makes a lot of sense in endurance sports.
And even in football, cos of the speed/stamina it demands.

Cricket, for a batsman, requires far less of these.
Sure, running between the wickets - or fielding in the outfield - yes.
But that's it.
Making it mandatory for batsmen is unreasonable IMO.
Bowlers, ok - they could break down if they have to bowl long spells.

I doubt if Gavaskar, Vishwanath and a whole lot of other players would have passed this Test.
But they fielded in the slips - with reasonably good reflexes.
And even if they ran a single where a two was on, is that a big enough reason to drop them?
I don't think so.

Look, I'm not saying this test doesn't have value.
Obviously it does - it objectively measures your fitness, instead of just using opinion to judge a player's fitness.
And it gives you a goal to aspire to - which is also great.

But to reject a batsman on this ground alone is harsh, in my opinion.
For a bowler I can still understand (unless he is a Shoiab Akhtar or Dennis Lillee who can blow away the top order in 5 overs :-)).

Am not saying this in the context of Rayudu alone.

And I maintain it is a great fitness measure to aspire to.
Just that it shouldn't mean some quality batsmen get excluded and replaced by very fit but more mediocre batsmen.

Format also probably matters.
If you're bowling 4 overs in T20, and are a top-notch death bowler but would fail this yo-you test, am not sure I'd drop you from my side. :-)
GS' comment on Gayle is also along the same lines.

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby Paddles » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:15 pm

raja wrote:It makes a lot of sense in endurance sports.
And even in football, cos of the speed/stamina it demands.

Cricket, for a batsman, requires far less of these.
Sure, running between the wickets - or fielding in the outfield - yes.
But that's it.
Making it mandatory for batsmen is unreasonable IMO.
Bowlers, ok - they could break down if they have to bowl long spells.

I doubt if Gavaskar, Vishwanath and a whole lot of other players would have passed this Test.
But they fielded in the slips - with reasonably good reflexes.
And even if they ran a single where a two was on, is that a big enough reason to drop them?
I don't think so.

Look, I'm not saying this test doesn't have value.
Obviously it does - it objectively measures your fitness, instead of just using opinion to judge a player's fitness.
And it gives you a goal to aspire to - which is also great.

But to reject a batsman on this ground alone is harsh, in my opinion.
For a bowler I can still understand (unless he is a Shoiab Akhtar or Dennis Lillee who can blow away the top order in 5 overs :-)).

Am not saying this in the context of Rayudu alone.

And I maintain it is a great fitness measure to aspire to.
Just that it shouldn't mean some quality batsmen get excluded and replaced by very fit but more mediocre batsmen.

Format also probably matters.
If you're bowling 4 overs in T20, and are a top-notch death bowler but would fail this yo-you test, am not sure I'd drop you from my side. :-)
GS' comment on Gayle is also along the same lines.


I don't think it needs to be mandatory neither - but fielding makes a big difference in limited overs cricket for the team and the bowlers. Teams that are constantly slick in the field, will turn momentum in some games into wins, a couple of great run outs, or catches - and the game turns quickly.

India have a luxury of a plethora of talented batsmen to play, if they want to pick some on the back of some bowling and fielding talents to give them a chance, it makes sense. They have more strings to their to their bow.
"Your inclination to assume and contradict is typical of Narcissism which is nothing about being pretty like the Narcissus fable."

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby bolero » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:58 am

Nice comments, all.

Would also like comments from Katto who supports the yo yo test.

Its a call the management have to take, its the way the Australians of old used to play.

Dont bother about reputation whether the person is a Tendulkar or xyz, if he doesnt pass the test, he is dropped.

This kind of professionalism needs to enter Indian sport.

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby Paddles » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:13 am

bolero wrote:Nice comments, all.

Would also like comments from Katto who supports the yo yo test.

Its a call the management have to take, its the way the Australians of old used to play.

Dont bother about reputation whether the person is a Tendulkar or xyz, if he doesnt pass the test, he is dropped.

This kind of professionalism needs to enter Indian sport.


Exactly what era?

Bob Simpson seems the obvious answer seeing he praised fitness and fielding? Well - he had Tubby, Boon, Young Warnie in his teams.

Before him there was Greg Richie.

Chappelli's era of smoking of and drinking?

or real old school - like Armstrong?

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"Your inclination to assume and contradict is typical of Narcissism which is nothing about being pretty like the Narcissus fable."

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby bolero » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:19 am

Paddles wrote:
bolero wrote:Nice comments, all.

Would also like comments from Katto who supports the yo yo test.

Its a call the management have to take, its the way the Australians of old used to play.

Dont bother about reputation whether the person is a Tendulkar or xyz, if he doesnt pass the test, he is dropped.

This kind of professionalism needs to enter Indian sport.


Exactly what era?

Bob Simpson seems the obvious answer seeing he praised fitness and fielding? Well - he had Tubby, Boon, Young Warnie in his teams.

Before him there was Greg Richie.

Chappelli's era of smoking of and drinking?


Steven Waugh. The team was strict with fitness. Whereas india used to play half fit men, Australia did not do that. Will go on record that with the form and fitness Tendulkar was carrying during his slump, he would have been dropped / not picked the Australian team.

Zaheer Khan, for example has broken down in tests, not once but more times that too on day 1. Had a yoyo test been done, he would not have been picked.

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby bolero » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:20 am

But again, Ambati Rayudu is a talented batsman. It is difficult to leave him. But then, how can we bypass a process.

If we make exceptions, the exception becomes the rule.

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby Paddles » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:49 am

bolero wrote:But again, Ambati Rayudu is a talented batsman. It is difficult to leave him. But then, how can we bypass a process.

If we make exceptions, the exception becomes the rule.


Only for qualifying exceptions.
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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby raja » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:34 pm

Paddles wrote:India have a luxury of a plethora of talented batsmen to play, if they want to pick some on the back of some bowling and fielding talents to give them a chance, it makes sense. They have more strings to their to their bow.


Exactly.

Right now, BCCI is in a luxury position - so it can afford to make statements like no yo-yo, no selection.
There are easily enough talented batsmen who will pass yo-yo.
And therefore such a statement becomes a convenient - and objective - explanation for elimination.

If the situation changes (I don't see it happening in the near future, but you never know), and they desperately need to up their quality, I won't be surprised if they relax the yo-yo criterion.

Not saying that's wrong, that's just pragmatic thinking.

Doesn't take away from my basic point - in fact only serves to stress it.

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby raja » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:39 pm

bolero wrote:But again, Ambati Rayudu is a talented batsman. It is difficult to leave him. But then, how can we bypass a process.

If we make exceptions, the exception becomes the rule.


Yes, Rayudu is a talented batsman - but BCCI has enough talent close to Rayudu right now, if not at the same level.
And the deficit, if any, can be covered in the field.
That's what the management thinks anyway - and they're right on that front, I'd say.

But I do expect exceptions to happen in future - how these are presented we have to see.

For all you know, the player might be given a leeway, test might be manipulated or even relaxed.

All of this is in BCCI's hands - it's all internal anyway. Might be more embarrassing to let out news that x failed the yo-yo test but is being picked anyway.

So we might not even know.

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Re: Kohli Shastri stress on importance of yoyo test

Postby Paddles » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:06 am

raja wrote:
bolero wrote:But again, Ambati Rayudu is a talented batsman. It is difficult to leave him. But then, how can we bypass a process.

If we make exceptions, the exception becomes the rule.


Yes, Rayudu is a talented batsman - but BCCI has enough talent close to Rayudu right now, if not at the same level.
And the deficit, if any, can be covered in the field.
That's what the management thinks anyway - and they're right on that front, I'd say.

But I do expect exceptions to happen in future - how these are presented we have to see.

For all you know, the player might be given a leeway, test might be manipulated or even relaxed.

All of this is in BCCI's hands - it's all internal anyway. Might be more embarrassing to let out news that x failed the yo-yo test but is being picked anyway.

So we might not even know.


Maybe in tests. Kohli does like his 2's in ODI cricket. He's not going to want anyone slower than yo-yo passing Sharma batting with him for a long time.

But in his defense, he is making damn sure that he leads from the front himself with regard fitness.
"Your inclination to assume and contradict is typical of Narcissism which is nothing about being pretty like the Narcissus fable."

HAHA!