Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

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Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Daanav » Tue May 01, 2018 9:13 am

I have often wondered how cricketers of a bygone era would have fared with the T20 format of the game, particularly IPL. My own experience of such players comes from the 1960s when I followed cricket as a kid. With some of them, careers spilled over to the 70s but their glory days were in the 60s.

I am interested in those with either no or very limited experience of limited overs cricket in any shape or form.

So, my opinion is that the following players would have been ideal:

1. Gary Sobers (WI): He was one of the most adaptable cricketers with bat and ball and as the greatest all-rounder would have loved the t20 format.

2. Keith Miller: He was from a much earlier era but his flamboyant approach would have suited the T20 format.

3. Budhi Kunderan: Flamboyant, outrageous and unreliable but great fun to watch when he was clicking with the bat. Great wicket-keeper to, often doing acrobatics even when unnecessary.

Any more names?

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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Paddles » Tue May 01, 2018 9:20 am

WG Grace

/thread

In seriousness:

SF Barnes was the original Mustafizur - but better. Was Les Ames a dasher?

NZ fans would scream J R Reid, who hit 6's, bowled and could wicket keep too. NZ's best player for a long time.

Aus fans would automatically say Bradman, but he'd only be an anchor, but I will offer Vic Trumper instead - the original king of unorthodoxy, and Benaud, Grimmett and O'Reilly go without saying really.

SA would provide allrounders of the class of leggie Aubrey Faulkner, seamers Barlow, Procter, and you know Graeme Pollock will make it. And if he makes it- his better Barry Richards will get a huge shout.

For WI, Headley is probably in the Bradman group, but Constantine, and LLoyd are fair shouts.
Last edited by Paddles on Tue May 01, 2018 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Going South » Tue May 01, 2018 9:48 am

viv richards

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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Paddles » Tue May 01, 2018 9:54 am

Going South wrote:viv richards


Before 1970? Noones heard of him outside his family school and club.

First class debut in 1971. Intls in 1974.
"Your inclination to assume and contradict is typical of Narcissism which is nothing about being pretty like the Narcissus fable."

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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Daanav » Tue May 01, 2018 10:04 am

Paddles, great answers. I agree with Syd Barnes, John Reid, Bill O'Reilly, Mike Procter, Barry Richards and Learie Constantine. All of them would have enjoyed T20 and LC would have been hugely popular with the Indian crowds at IPL.

Less certain about others you have mentioned. But I'd like to add Gilbert Jessop, Charlie Macartney, Stan McCabe and George Lohmann as contenders. Lohmann was even more miserly than Barnes and had a better strike rate.

As for Indian players, V Subramanyam is a consideration. He would have thrashed the likes of Narine and Rashid Khan out of the park. How about Salim Durrani? He could be flamboyant when he felt like it.

Going South - Please read my question. I clearly said those players whose careers were entirely or predominantly before 1970. Also with none or very limited experience of limited overs cricket. Viv Richards would NOT qualify.

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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Katto » Tue May 01, 2018 10:06 am

Ted Dexter

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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Daanav » Tue May 01, 2018 10:13 am

George Headley is unquestionably the greatest batsman Windies ever produced and almost certainly second only to Bradman overall. But he was too serious-minded about the game and particular about technique to have enjoyed the unorthodox 'fast-food' game of T20.

Likewise Bradman, Graeme Pollock and Benaud were very 'long game minded' in my opinion. Oh, I know about Bradman's 24-ball, 18-minute century in a Second Class match but I believe that was a one-off. He would not have enjoyed being part of a cricketing circus like IPL. Someone like Sobers on the other hand would have enjoyed it, cheerleaders and all.

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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Daanav » Tue May 01, 2018 10:19 am

Katto wrote:Ted Dexter
Umm, I think yes. His personality would have suited the T20 game and in IPL he would have done well as captain of one of the teams. Dexter would probably have come in at #3 and try to make his mark. Good player of pace bowling.

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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Going South » Tue May 01, 2018 11:21 am

Paddles wrote:
Going South wrote:viv richards


Before 1970? Noones heard of him outside his family school and club.

First class debut in 1971. Intls in 1974.

why restrict at 70s? this is not a draft etc

I always loved to see Viv richards blasting with no restrictions. IPL gives him ideal platform.

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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Daanav » Tue May 01, 2018 11:32 am

Going South wrote:why restrict at 70s? this is not a draft etc

Two reasons.

1. With that restriction, we'll be only looking at cricketers with very little or no limited overs cricket experience. That is crucial to my question.

2. With respect, it is my original post and I always intended it to be that way. In fact, on previous occasions where I have discussed this with friends over a pint (or three) of beer, we agreed on 1967 as the cut-off point. I extended that to 1970.

BTW, another name that I just recalled is a relatively obscure Aussie named Sam Loxton. He did play 12 tests for Oz in 1940s and early 50s but was better known as a county cricketer. A hard hitting middle order batsman, aggressive medium-fast bowler and athletic fielder, he would have loved the T20 format and IPL. Bradman mentioned in one of his memoirs that Loxton was fascinated by reading about Alletson's legendary innings from 1911 and often dreamed of emulating it. AFAIK, the closest he came to it was a whirlwind innings of 93 in the Australians' triumphant 1948 tour.

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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Paddles » Tue May 01, 2018 12:30 pm

Daanav wrote:George Headley is unquestionably the greatest batsman Windies ever produced and almost certainly second only to Bradman overall.


Lara, Richards and Sobers have questions for you.

Daanav wrote: But he was too serious-minded about the game and particular about technique to have enjoyed the unorthodox 'fast-food' game of T20.

Likewise Bradman, Graeme Pollock and Benaud
were very 'long game minded' in my opinion.


Pollock hit 6's, scored over 200 in a list A game 4 or 5 decades ago while averaging over 50 (remember this includes 40 over format) and Benaud was a thinking leggie who could bat, not a batsman who could bowl. That's gold in t20.

Daanav wrote: Oh, I know about Bradman's 24-ball, 18-minute century in a Second Class match but I believe that was a one-off. He would not have enjoyed being part of a cricketing circus like IPL. Someone like Sobers on the other hand would have enjoyed it, cheerleaders and all.


I didn't offer Bradman nor Headley. They'd just be anchors like Kohli has been. I don't respect that strategy as much as strikers as you will tell from my posts the more you're here.
"Your inclination to assume and contradict is typical of Narcissism which is nothing about being pretty like the Narcissus fable."

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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Daanav » Tue May 01, 2018 2:00 pm

Paddles wrote:Lara, Richards and Sobers have questions for you.

Don't know about Lara and Richards but Sobers, who played with the 3 Ws, acnlowledged that Headley was their greatest ever batsman.

George Headley played in the 1930s at a time where the West Indian team were very short of resources. Most players had just one pair of boots and the number of available kit was very limited. They did not play Tests often - in a career spanning 9 years before the War, Headley played only 22 Tests and against some of the best bowlers of the period scored 10 Test centuries at an average of over 60 per innings.

When he toured Australia with the team as a raw 21-year old in 1930-1, he was already well known. He started off well but Grimmett and O'Reilley exploited his orthodox closed batting stance with their leg spin. He considered it 'improper' to open his stance till he had a string of 8 failures in Test and county matches. He then opened-up his stance and the situation reversed to such an extent that by the end of the tour, Bill O'Reilley (no less) openly said that Headley was the best player of leg-spin that he had ever seen.....and you know very well who O'Reilley's most famous batsman colleague at the time was.

Furthermore, Sobers, Richards and early in his career Lara played at a time when the West Indies were a dominant force in international cricket. Headley on the other hand, played with a team with often looked liked it was a collection of available leftovers many of whom had not played with each other more than a few games.

Weekes, Walcott, Sobers, Richards and Lara were all great West Indian batsmen but George Headley was unquestionably the best from that region.

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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby Paddles » Tue May 01, 2018 2:15 pm

Ha, Sangakarra said that Aravinda was SL's greatest.

Kane Williamson says Martin Crowe is NZ's greatest.

Some players are too humble.

But I still question your use of unquestionably. Lara has played more of the great test innings than anyone in history.

And Viv played a lot of them too.

Sobers was Sobers, and Headley, well he's got a good average. But he played a lot of weak or leg spin based attacks.

He's among the best batsmen ever, but he is not unquestionably WI's greatest. Sobers, Richards, Lara and Headley are all in the conversation.

Lara played stuff all of his career with the Windies dominant, and you know it :P And WI in the Sobers era were behind Australia, who fell behind Safrica before they isolated, who also didn't play WI. And Sobers was easily their best player. Bit hard to call them 'dominant'. They had batting but lacked bowling. I'm not even sure they were ahead of England for the era.

I'd give you Viv, but he was part of the West Indian rise in the late 70's after joining a team that was humbled too often for Lloyd's liking. So he earnt his stripes without downhill skiing. In fact, he fell away in tests in the 1980's when the Windies had their established aura. Besides, that Viv WI dominance was built around 4 quick men, not Viv/Greenidge and Lloyd/Richardson. They had some weak batsmen filling in that order. Gus Logie. Bacchus. And the talented but disapointing Hooper. Phil Simmons failed to deliver.
"Your inclination to assume and contradict is typical of Narcissism which is nothing about being pretty like the Narcissus fable."

HAHA!

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Re: Which past cricketer (pre-1970) would have enjoyed T20/IPL?

Postby raja » Tue May 01, 2018 7:07 pm

Excellent thread.

Some names that come to mind:
Lee Irvine
Harold Gimblett
Mushtaq Ali
Wally Hammond
Eddie Paynter
Jack Gregory