Puzzling

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Puzzling

Postby raja » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:19 am

There are many players who didn't deliver at the highest level.
They're usually players who've been picked on performance at first-class level, or maybe promise.
They play the odd Test/ODI (series), then get dropped when they don't deliver.

I'm trying to understand why Clive Eksteen got picked at all by South Africa.
Played 7 Tests for SA (1993-2000), 6 ODIs (1991-1994).
So he represented his country 13 times.
Check out his stats.

Even at first-class / List-A level, they're poor.

Most of his cricket was during my blackout period, so I don't remember much of him.
His career did partly coincide with Paul Adams' career, so why was Eksteen still given a run?

Clive Eksteen
http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 44954.html

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Re: Puzzling

Postby raja » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:22 am


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Re: Puzzling

Postby raja » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:26 am

He might have faced competition from offie Pat Symcox
http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 47267.html

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Re: Puzzling

Postby Katto » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:51 am

that's him on the left

Image

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Re: Puzzling

Postby Tinsel » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:04 am

raja wrote:There are many players who didn't deliver at the highest level.
They're usually players who've been picked on performance at first-class level, or maybe promise.
They play the odd Test/ODI (series), then get dropped when they don't deliver.

I'm trying to understand why Clive Eksteen got picked at all by South Africa.
Played 7 Tests for SA (1993-2000), 6 ODIs (1991-1994).
So he represented his country 13 times.
Check out his stats.

Even at first-class / List-A level, they're poor.

Most of his cricket was during my blackout period, so I don't remember much of him.
His career did partly coincide with Paul Adams' career, so why was Eksteen still given a run?

Clive Eksteen
http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 44954.html

EKsteen was Orthodox bowler, who bats after Boje at # 10 so its understable he ends up with 91 runs and
8 or 9 wickets but

why ?

Marvin Attapatu hold his place in Srilankan cricket AFTER SCORING 1 RUNS in his 6 test innings ?

Biggest puzzle he solved himself with 6 DBL IN test at his retirements but if he plays for EnG/Aus or
Pakistan, he 100 percentage drops FOREVER after his 6 test innings with one run.

List is big Ashok Mankad perfect example in FC cricket but failed in test, S,Badrinath plus others.
India U19:589 A.tendulkar 0 on début.

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Re: Puzzling

Postby raja » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:47 am

I'm not talking about players whose first-class record was good/great.
It is understandable if they then get picked for higher honours - and don't deliver.

What puzzles me is when players don't even have a good first-class record.
They get picked, then fail in international cricket - and still get more chances!!!
That's what puzzles me.

Could it be cronyism, or since we're talking SA here, and that era, Cronje-ism?

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Re: Puzzling

Postby squarecut » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:49 am

That period was a blackout period for me as well. My guess is that South Africans wanted a spinner in their team and he was the best of the lot, despite his unflattering first class record. Forget him, even Paul Adams and Pat Symcox were hardly world class spinners.

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Re: Puzzling

Postby bolero » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:20 am

It was not a blackout period for me. Watched a lot of cricket that time.

Cronje was one of the most ruthless captains I have seen, the closest he resembled was the Douglas Jardine from Bodyline series.

He had an enviable record as a captain. Since his era was probably during Raja's and Squarecut's blackout period, probably you guys have not seen much of Cronje.

If SA became formidable in cricket, credit has to go to Cronje.

He also possessed good resources.

The fast bowlers they were always at you - Allan Donald, Fanie De Villiers, Craig Matthews, Brian McMillan, Cronje himself bowled decent medium pace.

Symcox was a kind of respite for Indian batsmen with his fastish offspin bowled by the burly man. He was the only bowler Indians could target.

Brett Schultz didnt play much but destroyed India in the tour games.

Cronje was a calculating captain. If he had his foot on the opposition's neck, its more likely he would crush it. There was no respite, none at all.

Somehow, Cronje was made the prime scapegoat in the match fixing, although his death was by way of an air crash, I suspect he was bumped off by the 'fixing syndicate' which was extremely powerful, probably it still exists.

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Re: Puzzling

Postby bolero » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:23 am

On Eksteen, I have seen him bowl, he just faded away. Was nothing special.

Paul Adams did enjoy moderate success, again all these spinners were the odd men out in a team known for fearsome fast bowling.

Just like Maharaj is in the current team, odd man out. It sticks out glaringly. Symcox was an impressive batsman, he used to hit the ball out of the park.

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Re: Puzzling

Postby raja » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:06 am

Thanks, bolero.

That was informative.

I've heard about Cronje's captaincy - his SA colleagues of the time (Jonty, Donald and co) swear by it.

There are many highly-rated players of my blackout period that I never really got to see much of.

Mark Waugh
Carl Hooper
Dean Jones (I think he became a superstar in ODIs?)
Martin Crowe (though I did get to see him in his early career)
Tendulkar (of the 1990s), though I did see his famous Sharjah knocks against Australia
Aravinda de Silva

Among bowlers
------------------
McDermott
Ambrose
Walsh
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
Fanie de Villiers (my brother spoke fairly highly of him)

Just think 1988-1999.
(Just think of all cricket between Hirwani's debut and WC1999).
During this blackout, I'd be able to watch Ashes games (in England) and other Tests in England - but nothing else.
I'd try to get news of scorecards - but missed out on a lot.

Most of these guys were at their peak during this period, I think.

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Re: Puzzling

Postby Katto » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:55 am

There was a great Australia v South Africa test match in Sydney in about 1993. Shane Warne and Fanie de Villiers both had excellent matches.
This was the match where Shane Warne had truly arrived however South Africa prevailed narrowly in the end thanks to a brilliant de Villiers spell and some questionable decision making from a youthful Damien Martyn who paid for it with his place in the side.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1639 ... a-1993-94/

edit: it was the beginning of 1994

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Re: Puzzling

Postby bolero » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:17 am

By the way, Damien Martyn was a batsman I admired a lot.

He was under rated.

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Re: Puzzling

Postby bolero » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:21 am

Sachin Tendulkar was Fanie De Villiers' bunny. he just couldnt pick up his slower off spinner in ODI's, this was in Sharjah.

Always mistimed it and got out to it atleast a couple of times if not more.

It was a prime example of a fast bowler reinventing himself on placid pitches to suit the ODI's.

De Villiers was also judge in fashion pageants. The entire unit was the fulcrum of Cronje's side.

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Re: Puzzling

Postby bolero » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:26 am

Sachin Tendulkar Never Took My Slower Balls Seriously: Fanie de Villiers

Johannesburg: Airport lounges are not the most ideal locations for telephonic interviews. With an eye on the clock and flight announcements causing distractions, people often tend to hold back till they have landed at their destination before obliging reporters with interviews. But not when you are Fanie de Villiers. The former South Africa pacer immediately agrees to talk when you tell him that you have come to cover the ongoing Freedom Series from India. Fanie says he just loves the warmth of Indian people and he always has time for them.

CricketNext needed no second invitation to hop on and start the journey back to the 1990s when Fanie formed one of the most potent opening bowling partnerships in limited-overs cricket with Allan Donald. At a time when master blaster Sachin Tendulkar was busy tormenting top-class bowlers around the world, the South African pacer seemed to have a trick in his armoury to dismiss the little genius, and managed to get the prized wicket 4 times in 16 outings. A man who loves to wear his heart on his sleeve, Fanie says it was Tendulkar’s disdain towards slower deliveries that helped him dismiss the legend.

“Sachin never took my slower balls seriously. By slower balls I mean the off-cutters which would grip on the wickets in the sub-continent and catch the batsmen off guard. Back in the early 90s, only Manoj Prabhakar and I bowled them and Sachin wanted to hit them out of the ground. That is how I managed to dismiss him time and again, be it in Sharjah or in India during the Titan Cup in 1996,” he reveals.

Despite having an upper hand over Tendulkar, Fanie tells you he would not want to bowl to Virat Kohli, who is considered the successor of the legend. In his own witty way, he says that he would rather pull his hamstring and walk off the ground.

“Kohli at the crease? I would rather pull my hammy (hamstring muscle) and walk off to the dressing room. This lad can pack a punch and he is a class player. But, if I did have to bowl to him, it would have to be just outside the off-stump as being a swing bowler, I would then bring the slip fielders into play. You have to attack him on the fourth stump and get him to drive away from his body. If you can get him early, good for you because otherwise you will be on a day long leather chase,” he laughs.

Having seen Hardik Pandya play a gritty knock at Cape Town, Fanie says that the all-rounder has the ingredients to become a world-class all-rounder, but needs to work on his bowling first and get that at par international standards.

“He is a warrior and a good batsman coming lower down the order. But Pandya needs to work on his bowling quite a bit. He still has some way to go before he can be called an international level bowler. The wrist action is something that needs to be taken care of and he needs to be guided by a former pacer who knows the tricks of the trade. He has the talent and now needs proper guidance,” the 53-year-old said.

Even though Fanie is impressed by the talent on offer, the former South Africa pacer says the reason why the Indian team has failed to win games in the Rainbow Nation is because of their batsmen. He feels they needed to apply themselves better and fight it out in the middle once they got in.

“You cannot play bad shots and throw your wicket away in South Africa. In these conditions, you need batsmen who will grind it out and play session after session. You cannot start well and throw your wicket away here, and that is where I feel the Indians have lacked. They needed someone like Ajinkya Rahane in the team to help provide that solidarity in the middle-order. You can’t just rely on Kohli all the time,” he signed off.

https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/news ... 39177.html

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Re: Puzzling

Postby bolero » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:31 am

Just see the technical analysis of Fanie, its a treat for us fans. He has analysed the Indian bowling threadbare.

------

Shami would make Proteas attack - Fanie de Villiers

Cape Town - Proteas fast bowling folk hero Fanie de Villiers says Mohammed Shami is currently India's best fast bowler - and would be able to command a place in the highly-rated Proteas attack.

The former paceman believes that the line that Shami bowls makes him one of the best fast bowlers in the world right now.

De Villiers is quoted by the Times of India website as saying: "Shami is a good bowler. He could play for South Africa and fit into their pace attack very well.

"He has a beautiful out-swinger, runs in hard, bowls at 140s, and most importantly, he consistently bowls that line to first slip.

"He bowls the line Glenn McGrath did, Shaun Pollock did, Ian Botham did, Dale Steyn does, and so, he is India s best Test bowler."

De Villiers opined that Shami's extra pace makes him more threatening than someone like Hardik Pandya who bowls a similar line.

De Villiers went on to say: "When you are bowling in South Africa, it is important to have that away-swinging line. Shami has that. Hardik Pandya has that too, but he doesn't have too much pace. Until he gets that pace he will not be a big wicket-taker.

"He will fit into India s overseas plans very well though, because he bowls that away-swinging line. Bhuvneshwar Kumar also has that, but he didn't play in Centurion."


The Proteas legend questioned the India team selection for the second Test, he felt it was a big mistake to leave out Bhuvneshwar Kumar.

He said: "I am genuinely surprised that Kumar didn't play. He should be playing all overseas Test matches for India.

"He is someone who can take the ball away from right-handers and then bring it back into left-handers as well."

"That is the future of world cricket on quicker wickets and this has been the past. Jasprit Bumrah bowled well, but he primarily bowls into the right-hander, or bowls into the stumps.

"Even on flat wickets like Centurion, Kumar can average 4 wickets per match. It was a big mistake not picking him," said de Villiers.

"Ishant Sharma bowls into the stumps. Bumrah bowls into the stumps too. In South Africa, you cannot have two pacers bowling into the batsmen on a wicket like this.

"Bumrah bowled well in patches yes, but is he going to take 8-9 wickets in a Test? How many times has Ishant picked 8-9 wickets in a Test?

"He cannot, because he bowls an incoming delivery into the bat. Kumar can do it, Shami can do it, and they have done it before if I am not mistaken, because they have the away going delivery.


"So, Shami is your future, Kumar is your future, and they bowl quick enough to be in that category. Even Pandya is your future (if he adds a little pace)."

https://www.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Prote ... s-20180120

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Re: Puzzling

Postby bolero » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:58 am

Devon Malcolm on that 1994 Oval Test, those nine wickets and making South Africa 'history'

“In retrospect, it might have better for someone to tell Fanie to forget what he was planning and pitch it up,” says former South Africa pace bowler, Craig Matthews. Unfortunately for South Africa’s batting line-up, Fanie de Villiers had the whiff of revenge in his nostrils and Devon Malcolm was just about to cop it.

It was late August 1994, with the sun beating down on a rock hard Oval surface when de Villiers delivered that fateful delivery, a bouncer that hit Malcolm squarely on the Three Lions adorning his helmet. It was rumored to be revenge for the England man hitting Jonty Rhodes in South Africa’s first innings. Whatever the reason, the usually mild-mannered Malcolm was not a happy man.

“I’m pretty easy going,” he tells The Independent. “But even when Allan Donald, who’s a good mate of mine, came up and asked me if I was okay, I swore at him and told him where to get off.”

Malcolm insists he uttered the words ‘you guys are history’; Darren Gough, his partner at the other end, maintains that the threat, which remains one of the most well-known phrases in English cricket history, never left his mouth.

Whatever he said, the South Africans were left in no doubt that they had better muster all the protective armour they could before they stepped out to bat for an innings that would decide the direction of their first series in England since 1965.

A thrashing in the opening Test at Lord's – a match which became synonymous with the dirt in Mike Atherton’s pocket – had once again heaped the pressure on coach, Ray Illingworth, and the skipper. A drawn test at Headingley did little to alleviate that and meant that South Africa arrived at the Oval on the cusp of an historic triumph.

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Re: Puzzling

Postby bolero » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:59 am

While England had once again stumbled their way through the summer, Malcolm, had spent most of his kicking his heels around the county circuit, bowling for his county, Derbyshire, and biding his time before the call, inevitably, came for the Oval Test.

“I had played one Test match against New Zealand at Trent Bridge earlier in the summer but was then left out,” he says.

“But when we lost that match against South Africa at Lords I was thinking to myself that I was going to get a recall because that’s what happened in the ‘90s – you were in one minute and out the next. I was in good form in the run-up to that match and was taking plenty of wickets in county cricket and I knew this was a match that England needed to win

“The thing about the Oval pitch was that it was a very good track to bat on because the bounce was so consistent. Once you were in, you were going to make runs but I always did pretty well there because the harder you hit the pitch you more you got out of it.”

South Africa’s first innings effort of 332 was neither a match-winning effort or one that made a draw inevitable. And when England made 304 in reply it was game on.

“Myself and Darren Gough had made a few in the first innings and had really attacked the South African bowling,” says Phil de Fretais. “We wrestled the initiative back from them. I reckon we set Devon up perfectly for what was to follow!”

With Malcolm silently seething following his blow on the head – and with rumours flying around the South African dressing room that England’s spearhead was listening to the national anthem in his headphones before coming out to bowl – the endearingly inconsistent man from Derbyshire tore in like a man possessed.

And South Africa had no answers.

“The first ball went exactly where I wanted it to go and it was quick – seriously quick,” says Malcolm. “Mate, everything was just made for me. I’m a real mild-mannered person and even with a cricket ball in my hand I always just tried to make the cricket ball talk but this time I was fizzing. I think Allan Donald had conveyed to his team-mates how pissed off I was. I think the South Africans knew they were in the s***. I didn’t hesitate to deliver from ball one.”

The wickets fell like nine-pins. Gary and Peter Kirsten fell in no time, while Hansie Cronje was about a week late on a Malcolm thunderbolt that cleaned him up with embarrassing haste.

“If you look at the footage, a couple of balls before I got Kepler Wessels and Cronje out I came round the wicket and got a delivery right near their throats. It was sheer hostility. I worked everyone one of them over – they just couldn’t handle the pace, if I’m honest.”

He’s not wrong. South Africa’s usually obdurate batting line-up had no answer and, with the exception of Daryl Cullinan, folded meekly. Only Gough broke the Malcolm monopoly, as he recorded figures of 9-57, then the sixth best in the history of Test cricket.

“Bob Willis against Australia at Headingley in 1981 was the best bit of bowling I had witnessed in my life,” he says. “It was one of those spells where everything clicked for him and it was exactly the same for me. The South Africans were absolutely shell-shocked.

“At the end of their innings, Mike Atherton told me that as long as he lived he probably wouldn’t ever witness one person dominate a game to the extent that I had done.”

After posting 175, however, England still needed 204 to win the game. Such was the damage – both mental and physical – caused by Malcolm, however, that the result was never in doubt.

“There were a lot of quiet people in that dressing room,” says Matthews. “He had done a job on us.”

England duly knocked off the runs, scoring 205 for the loss of just two wickets, to square the series. Malcolm’s performance remains one of the most astonishing in English cricket history.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cric ... 60081.html

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Re: Puzzling

Postby Katto » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:03 am

bolero wrote:By the way, Damien Martyn was a batsman I admired a lot.

He was under rated.


he had a hot run of form in 2003-04

dominated on turning pitches in Sri Lanka and India