The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

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The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

Postby Boycs » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:45 pm

Mostly for raja, and other old cronies here :P

I'd invite raja to cast his mind back to the eras before I was even but a single celled organism. We're all familiar with the players like Ramprakash and Hick, players who absolutely dominated their domestic set ups yet - for what is mostly believed to be perhaps a lack of mental toughness combined with some messing around by the establishment - never cut it at international level.

But beyond those two, no obvious examples spring to mind.

Are there any players who absolutely dominated the Sheffield Shield, or the Ranji trophy (legitimately, not just because of shite pitches) who flaked at international level? Or county players from years gone by?

I don't mean people who were just crap at both. More those who had a marked disparity between their domestic and international levels for no apparent technical/skill-related reason.

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Re: The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

Postby Boycs » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:06 pm

Not sure if Kim Hughes might fall into this category. From what I've watched of him, and what I've read in his biography 'Golden Boy' he was perhaps of seemingly limitless natural ability but fell short frustratingly and left the game with an under-par average and a legacy of crying his way out of the captaincy?

Found a The Cricketer article who also suggests Shaun Tait, Wasim Raja. However I can recall Tait being injured more than being mentally unfit for the international scene, and Raja seems to have made out of Test cricket what he had made out of the Ranji tropy there doesn't seem to be much comparison.

But it then suggests Ajay Sharma? Who's that? FC average of 67? But he only had one Test so can't really be said to fall into this bracket either.

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Re: The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

Postby Katto » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:52 am

Kim Hughes was thrown under the bus

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Re: The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

Postby raja » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:52 pm

Boycs wrote:Not sure if Kim Hughes might fall into this category. From what I've watched of him, and what I've read in his biography 'Golden Boy' he was perhaps of seemingly limitless natural ability but fell short frustratingly and left the game with an under-par average and a legacy of crying his way out of the captaincy?

Found a The Cricketer article who also suggests Shaun Tait, Wasim Raja. However I can recall Tait being injured more than being mentally unfit for the international scene, and Raja seems to have made out of Test cricket what he had made out of the Ranji tropy there doesn't seem to be much comparison.

But it then suggests Ajay Sharma? Who's that? FC average of 67? But he only had one Test so can't really be said to fall into this bracket either.


Kim Hughes was unpopular in his time - he had problems with Western Australia teammates, Dennis Lillee & Rod Marsh.
The whole Packer episode created a rift in Australian cricket (and world cricket in general).
Kim Hughes was a good player, but not in the Packer camp - unlike the who's-who of Aussie cricket at the time.
(Notable exception was Thommo who had a reason, I don't remember what now).
That made things worse for his relationship with stars like Greg Chappell, Lillee and Marsh.

Kim Hughes had a torrid time as Aussie captain during the 1984-85 tour of West Indies. The big names of Aussie cricket - Greg Chappell, Lillee, Marsh had just retired. Hughes led a rookie team - and the Windies pace battery (Holding, Marshall, Garner & co) was at its best.

(He still managed a superb 100 in one of the Tests). He broke down at one stage - and became an immediate object of mockery for Australians, who considered themselves tough sportspersons at that time.

I always rated Hughes as a batsman - he had a pretty successful tour of India in 1979-80, scoring consistently on wickets which helped Indian spinners.

So seeing his name in this shortlist is very surprising. Playing against the West Indies, he played the best of world attacks ever. And for a while, he hardly got any support from his own players, so he seemed to be with his back to the wall, most times.

Statistics will never show all this.

Hughes today would have a high-40s average, if not a 50 average. Far worse players have a far better average than Hughes.

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Re: The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

Postby raja » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:54 pm

Wasim Raja also does not belong in this list.

In his case too, his stats don't do justice to his ability.

He was a far better batsman than his stats suggest - just check out his batting against tough opposition, like the West Indies in the late 70s.
But from what I recall, he was a somewhat casual cricketer.

More later. Busy now. :-)

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Re: The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

Postby Misty » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:29 pm

How about Ross Edward and Rick McCoskar?

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Re: The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

Postby raja » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:11 am

I don't think they belong in this list either.
Both Ross Edwards and Rick McCosker were fairly successful at the highest level.

Players who come to mind are Ashok Mankad and Brijesh Patel.
And Parthasarathy Sharma.
All prolific at first-class level.
They could be on this list though the selectors at the time are also probably to blame for not giving them an extended run.

Then there was Mike Brearley who didn't belong at Test level - and would normally not have lasted more than 5-6 Tests if he'd not had captaincy skills.

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Re: The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

Postby Paddles » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:05 am

raja wrote:
Boycs wrote:Not sure if Kim Hughes might fall into this category. From what I've watched of him, and what I've read in his biography 'Golden Boy' he was perhaps of seemingly limitless natural ability but fell short frustratingly and left the game with an under-par average and a legacy of crying his way out of the captaincy?

Found a The Cricketer article who also suggests Shaun Tait, Wasim Raja. However I can recall Tait being injured more than being mentally unfit for the international scene, and Raja seems to have made out of Test cricket what he had made out of the Ranji tropy there doesn't seem to be much comparison.

But it then suggests Ajay Sharma? Who's that? FC average of 67? But he only had one Test so can't really be said to fall into this bracket either.


Kim Hughes was unpopular in his time - he had problems with Western Australia teammates, Dennis Lillee & Rod Marsh.
The whole Packer episode created a rift in Australian cricket (and world cricket in general).
Kim Hughes was a good player, but not in the Packer camp - unlike the who's-who of Aussie cricket at the time.
(Notable exception was Thommo who had a reason, I don't remember what now).
That made things worse for his relationship with stars like Greg Chappell, Lillee and Marsh.

Kim Hughes had a torrid time as Aussie captain during the 1984-85 tour of West Indies. The big names of Aussie cricket - Greg Chappell, Lillee, Marsh had just retired. Hughes led a rookie team - and the Windies pace battery (Holding, Marshall, Garner & co) was at its best.

(He still managed a superb 100 in one of the Tests). He broke down at one stage - and became an immediate object of mockery for Australians, who considered themselves tough sportspersons at that time.

I always rated Hughes as a batsman - he had a pretty successful tour of India in 1979-80, scoring consistently on wickets which helped Indian spinners.

So seeing his name in this shortlist is very surprising. Playing against the West Indies, he played the best of world attacks ever. And for a while, he hardly got any support from his own players, so he seemed to be with his back to the wall, most times.

Statistics will never show all this.

Hughes today would have a high-40s average, if not a 50 average. Far worse players have a far better average than Hughes.


Thommo latently became a Packet supporter. He jumped ship from CA after or during season 1 to be with his Packer supporter mates.

Rod Marsh wanted the captaincy post ChapellG, Hughes got it, so Lillee and Marsh made his life v difficult by their own admission.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

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Re: The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

Postby Boycs » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:26 pm

I did enjoy the Golden Boy biography of Hughes, and have enjoyed what YouTube highlights I've seen of him

Just watched his hundred against WI 80/81 series. Coming down the pitch to Joel Garner then pulled him for four!!

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Re: The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

Postby Mick180461 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:28 am

David Hookes, Greg Blewett & Michael Bevan are the 3 best examples in my time. Bevan averaged 57 in FC Cricket but only 29 in 18 tests, Hookes & Blewett each 44 in FC, 34 in tests and all 3 had the same thing in common spent the early part of their FC Careers playing on the Adelaide Oval road.

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Re: The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

Postby Paddles » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:35 pm

Mick180461 wrote:David Hookes, Greg Blewett & Michael Bevan are the 3 best examples in my time. Bevan averaged 57 in FC Cricket but only 29 in 18 tests, Hookes & Blewett each 44 in FC, 34 in tests and all 3 had the same thing in common spent the early part of their FC Careers playing on the Adelaide Oval road.


You can add Don Bradman to this list. Over 110 in Sheffield Shield, not even a hundred in tests; and they even named a stand at the Adelaide Oval after him.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

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Re: The Hicks + Ramps of yesteryear

Postby Boycs » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:27 pm

Yeah pretty weak