Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

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Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:14 am

For no reason in particular, have been thinking of Aussie quicks of the last 20-odd years.
So thought I'd start a thread on this, making it a discussion topic.

You need to rate these players on a scale of 10, keeping only TEST cricket in mind.
Rating must be on their bowling ability alone, nothing else.
Players are mentioned in random order, does not reflect my preference.

1) Glenn McGrath
2) Stuart Clark
3) Jason Gillespie
4) Mitchell Johnson
5) Peter Siddle
6) Doug Bollinger
7) Ben Hilfenhaus
8) James Pattinson
9) Trent Copeland
10) Josh Hazlewood
11) Ryan Harris
12) Mitchell Starc
13) Pat Cummins
14) Brett Lee
15) Nathan Bracken
16) Michael Kasprowicz
17) Damien Fleming
18) Andy Bichel

You are most welcome of course to explain your ratings. In fact, that is encouraged.

Hoping to see a stimulating discussion coming out of this.

(If I have missed out any meaningful player, please let me know).

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Re: Rate these players (Tests): Aussie quicks

Postby Katto » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:29 am

this is going to be rushed but sometimes it pays to not over think things

1) Glenn McGrath 9
2) Stuart Clark 7
3) Jason Gillespie 8
4) Mitchell Johnson 8
5) Peter Siddle 6
6) Doug Bollinger 5
7) Ben Hilfenhaus 6
8) James Pattinson 7
9) Trent Copeland 4
10) Josh Hazlewood 8
11) Ryan Harris 8
12) Mitchell Starc 9
13) Pat Cummins 8
14) Brett Lee 7
15) Nathan Bracken 4
16) Michael Kasprowicz 6
17) Damien Fleming 6

injury proneness wasn't really taken into account but it has affected overall effectiveness of some of these players

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Boycs » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:51 am

I was about to question some missing names before I got to the distressing realisation that “the last twenty years” only takes us back to 1998 :(

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Boycs » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:54 am

1) Glenn McGrath 10
2) Stuart Clark 7
3) Jason Gillespie 8
4) Mitchell Johnson 8
5) Peter Siddle 7
6) Doug Bollinger 6
7) Ben Hilfenhaus 6
8) James Pattinson 6
9) Trent Copeland 6
10) Josh Hazelwood 7
11) Ryan Harris 8
12) Mitchell Starc 8
13) Pat Cummins 8
14) Brett Lee 9
15) Nathan Bracken 4
16) Michael Kasprowicz 7
17) Damien Fleming 7

Id espouse more if I was at a computer rather than my phone but may be able to later.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Leo » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:51 am

1. Glenn McGrath
2. Mitchell Starc
3. Jason Gillespie
4. Mitchell Johnson
5. Josh Hazlewood
6. Michael Kasprowicz
7. Stuart Clark
8. Damien Fleming
9. Peter Siddle
10. Doug Bollinger
11. Ben Hilfenhaus
12. James Pattinson
13. Ryan Harris
14. Brett Lee
15. Nathan Bracken
Time is the Best Speaker

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Boycs » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:31 am

Thou hath rated Lee lower than I would hath expecteth

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:22 am

My ratings (performance in Ashes Tests within parantheses - Tests, wickets, average)
As you know, for me all that matter are the Ashes. :grin:

1) Glenn McGrath 9 (30-157-20.92) (superb at all times, even in the Ashes. Would've got a 10, but for getting injured in middle of Ashes 2005)
2) Stuart Clark 8 (7-30-20.63) (superb in the Ashes)
3) Jason Gillespie 5 (18-65-29.03) (will never forgive him for Ashes 2005)
4) Mitchell Johnson 7 (19-87-25.81) (redeemed himself somewhat with Ashes 2013-14)
5) Peter Siddle 6 (21-73-28.63) Ever the trier
6) Doug Bollinger 4 (1-1-130.00) Impressed in the IPL for CSK but didn't do much in Tests

7) Ben Hilfenhaus 5 (9-29-35.13) (toyed with BCCI in 2013, very average in the Ashes)
8) James Pattinson 6 (2-7-43.85) (also toyed with BCCI in 2013, and sample size for Ashes too small, so giving him a slight nod over Hilf)
9) Trent Copeland 4 (No Ashes Tests; played only 3 Tests overall, all in SL, 6 wickets at avg of 37)
10) Josh Hazlewood 7 (9-37-25.83)
11) Ryan Harris 10 (12-57-20.63) My favourite cricketer, always gave his everything despite injuries, can't ask for more from him
12) Mitchell Starc 7 (12-51-27.92)
13) Pat Cummins 7 (5-23-24.65)
14) Brett Lee 5 (18-62-40.61) Bowled some fabulous spells in his career, but his poor Ashes record has to be recognized
15) Nathan Bracken 5 (No Ashes cricket for him) - I thought Bracken was a pretty good bowler, though his Test stats are poor
16) Michael Kasprowicz 5 (6-20-33.50)
17) Damien Fleming 7 (7-26-25.61)

18) Andy Bichel 5 (3-10-35.10)

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:23 am

My ratings above.

Note that I'd forgotten Andy Bichel. Have added him at no18.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby squarecut » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:00 am

Last 20 years are too recent by my standards. For me even Craig McDermott (who played three decades ago) sounds recent.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby bolero » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:05 pm

1) Glenn McGrath 9.5
2) Stuart Clark 7
3) Jason Gillespie 8
4) Mitchell Johnson 8.5
5) Peter Siddle 7
6) Doug Bollinger 5
7) Ben Hilfenhaus 6
8) James Pattinson 7
9) Trent Copeland (Not seen him bowl much)
10) Josh Hazlewood 8
11) Ryan Harris 7.5
12) Mitchell Starc 9
13) Pat Cummins 8
14) Brett Lee 8
15) Nathan Bracken 4
16) Michael Kasprowicz 6.5
17) Damien Fleming 7

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Katto » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:32 pm

raja wrote:My ratings above.

Note that I'd forgotten Andy Bichel. Have added him at no18.


I assumed it was this century
was he still playing tests?

ah he played in that 2003 WC I recall

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:57 pm

bolero wrote:11) Ryan Harris 7.5

Hmm.
Only 7.5?

I guess of all the teams he played against, his figures against BCCI are the weakest.
Maybe that has played its part here.

For me Harris is just a notch below McGrath in dependability.
He bowled in 52 innings.
0 wickets - 10
1 wicket - 8
Rest of the times (i.e 34 times), at least 2 wickets.

His SR of 50.7 is pretty good.

Of course I'm a bit biased by the Ashes. :grin:

On that 2013 Ashes tour, he took
5,2,2,2,2,7,2,2 in the 4 Tests he played.

In the home Ashes series that followed, he took 22 wickets.

Even in the highly forgettable 2010-11 Ashes series (when Cook was killing it), he took 11 in the 3 Tests he played (didn't take a wicket at the MCG, otherwise did well).

I think he got injured in that MCG game - can someone confirm?

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:15 pm

Yes, he got injured in that MCG Test.
Had taken 9 wickets at the WACA in just the previous Test.

Is forced to miss the final Test at the SCG - England thrash Australia by an innings.

England, lucky as usual.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2 ... 94546.html

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:20 pm

The above link:

Ryan Harris was sent for surgery on his injured left ankle on Wednesday and is likely to be out for three to four months, but he hasn't entirely given up hope of being fit for the World Cup. That is a supremely optimistic goal for Harris, who broke down while running in to bowl during his 29th over on Tuesday and hobbled off the field with what was later confirmed as a stress fracture in the ankle.

It was a major disappointment for Harris, who has made a strong start to his Test career and has collected 20 wickets at 24.40 in five matches, including nine during Australia's win at the WACA this month. At 31, it won't be easy for Harris to force his way back for Australia's next Test series, especially given that he will carry a painful problem with his right knee for the rest of his career.

"He's obviously disappointed, albeit a little bit optimistic this morning," Australia's captain Ricky Ponting said after England retained the Ashes with an innings win. "I think he's actually having surgery as we speak. It looks like it could be a few months. I had a chat to him this morning and said 'it looks like it's going to be hard for you for the World Cup', and he didn't rule that out. He's that sort of character. As you saw the other day, if he's even got one leg to run on, he'll do it."

It would be a remarkable recovery if Harris was able to take part in the World Cup on the subcontinent, which begins in just over seven weeks. A more realistic goal for Harris is to be in contention for Australia's next Test tour, in Sri Lanka in August, which will be followed by a Test series in South Africa before the 2011-12 home summer.

But by then, Australia could be looking to the future, with younger fast men like Josh Hazlewood, Mitchell Starc, Trent Copeland and James Pattinson all likely to push for international action in the next couple of years. Harris has been one of the quickest bowlers during the Ashes Tests and he is regarded as a genuine wicket-taker, and also has 41 ODI victims at 16.12.

"It's a massive blow for him and a massive blow for the team as well, because he has been a great performer in every game that he's played, really," Ponting said. "He's a lion-hearted bloke that has got exceptional qualities to be a very good international bowler, as we've all seen, not just over the last couple of weeks but since he debuted in the one-day team a little while ago."

Harris wasn't asked to bat during Australia's second innings, as the final wicket fell with the deficit still standing at 157 runs to make England bat again. He was heading off for an operation after the Test, while his team-mates were commiserating following their failure to regain the Ashes on home soil.

"Ryan was reviewed by a specialist in Melbourne this morning," Trefor James, the Cricket Australia doctor, said. "The specialist confirmed that the best management for the stress fracture of his left ankle would be to undergo surgery. This surgery will occur today and we expect Ryan's recovery time to be three to four months."

The injury means there will be at least one change to Australia's squad for the final Ashes Test in Sydney next week, where the spinner Michael Beer is likely to make his debut after being 12th man in Perth and Melbourne. Doug Bollinger would be the most obvious candidate to come in to the pace attack, but four fast men are not usually the preferred attack on the SCG surface.

Brydon Coverdale is an assistant editor at Cricinfo

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:24 pm

Home › Series › The Ashes 2013 › News
Ashes 2013: Ryan Harris shrugs off injury to avenge agony
Just two-and-a half-years ago, Australia's quest to regain the Ashes left Ryan Harris at the lowest ebb of his cricket career.
By Agence France-Presse | Updated : July 18, 2013 11:23 PM IST

Ashes 2013: Ryan Harris shrugs off injury to avenge agony

London: Jul 18, 2013

Just two-and-a half-years ago, Australia‘s quest to regain the Ashes left Ryan Harris at the lowest ebb of his cricket career.

But the injury-hit pace bowler finally put those painful memories on one side as he led Australia’s attack on the first day of the second Ashes Test at Lord’s on Thursday.

Before lunch Harris took two wickets in five balls, including the prized scalp of Kevin Pietersen, in front of a capacity crowd featuring Queen Elizabeth II, to give Australia renewed hope of regaining the Ashes.

It was a cathartic moment for Harris, who has battled back from a series of ailments that threatened to wreck his career.

Harris emerged as a new ball threat for Australia, after belatedly marking his Test debut aged 30, with six wickets against New Zealand in 2010.

But since then the 33-year-old has been plagued by a series of injuries including a chronic knee problem that will be with him until he retires.

The most frustrating of those injuries came during the 2010-11 Ashes series just as Sydney-born Harris was starting to fulfil his potential.

When he took nine wickets at Perth to help level the series, it seemed Australia had unearthed a real gem.

But Harris suffered a stress fracture to his left ankle in the fourth Test in Melbourne, England went on to win the series 3-1 and the pace bowler has never quite been able to shake off the injury-prone tag.

A shoulder complaint that needed surgery in 2012 left Harris sidelined for several months, while an Achilles injury earlier this year cut short his spell in the Indian Premier League (IPL).

Despite such a suspect fitness record, Harris had been in good form for Queensland of late and he showcased his ability to thrive in English conditions with five wickets for Australia ‘A’ against Gloucestershire last month.

With victory vital at Lord’s after Australia’s 14-run defeat in the first Test at Trent Bridge, Harris was recalled in place of Mitchell Starc.

It proved an inspired move.

Wearing the baggy green cap for the first time since the final Test against the West Indies in the Caribbean last year, Harris charged in like a man on a mission.

Asked before the series if he had unfinished business with England, Harris said, “That’s a very good question and yes it is – we lost pretty badly in that (2010/11) series.

“Obviously I went down halfway through that Test so it would be nice to come back, play well, take some wickets and bring the Ashes home.”

And Harris, who had taken 47 wickets at 23.63 from his 12 previous Tests, wasn’t going to pass up this chance for revenge.

The Queen, introduced to both teams prior to the start of play, barely had time to get comfortable in her seat before Harris had ripped the heart out of England’s top order.

After captain Alastair Cook was dismissed by Shane Watson, Harris struck for the first time, pinning Joe Root lbw.

Even the controversial Decision Review System (DRS), which came to England’s rescue at Trent Bridge, couldn’t deny Harris as third umpire Tony Hill ruled the ball hit the pad before the batsman made contact.

Harris then induced an edge from Pietersen to wicketkeeper Brad Haddin with a perfectly pitched delivery that went up the slope.

Harris took a breather with a figures of 5-2-9-2, but returned for another miserly four-over spell that kept England firmly on the back foot at lunch.

And he was the only Australia bowler to take a wicket in the second session when he checked England’s fightback by having Jonathan Trott (58) top edge a short ball to deep square leg.

http://www.cricketcountry.com/news/ashe ... gony-29078

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:26 pm

This was after the Perth Test and before Harris' injury at the MCG. 2010-11.
Good read.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2 ... 93524.html

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:28 pm

Come to think of it, maybe I should have started a separate thread to discuss Ryan Harris. :-)

Will stop here. Let the rest of the bowlers also get a mention. :-)

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Katto » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:34 pm

I feel like the first post in this thread was loaded now

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:06 pm

Katto wrote:I feel like the first post in this thread was loaded now

Loaded in what sense? :grin:

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Going South » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:47 pm

10 from those 20 won’t belong there. ahem.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Boycs » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:14 pm

raja wrote:
bolero wrote:11) Ryan Harris 7.5

Hmm.
Only 7.5?

I guess of all the teams he played against, his figures against BCCI are the weakest.
Maybe that has played its part here.

For me Harris is just a notch below McGrath in dependability.
He bowled in 52 innings.
0 wickets - 10
1 wicket - 8
Rest of the times (i.e 34 times), at least 2 wickets.

His SR of 50.7 is pretty good.

Of course I'm a bit biased by the Ashes. :grin:

On that 2013 Ashes tour, he took
5,2,2,2,2,7,2,2 in the 4 Tests he played.

In the home Ashes series that followed, he took 22 wickets.

Even in the highly forgettable 2010-11 Ashes series (when Cook was killing it), he took 11 in the 3 Tests he played (didn't take a wicket at the MCG, otherwise did well).

I think he got injured in that MCG game - can someone confirm?


I looked up McGrath against India, in India, and in the sub-continent in general and was as impressed as I am about all his Test stats. 51 wickets against India overall (better than his averages against all other Test teams bar Zimbabwe! Which is suprising given the Indian batsmen he bowled again?) but 33 wickets at 21.30 in India and 72 wickets at 23.02 in the sub-continent overall. The latter stat is his worst return but largely due to a poor (for him) average in Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

I had expected his stats in India to be the worst of his sub-continent stats, given that I'd imagine India the better batting line up out of the sub-continent teams of his era, but in fact it's the other way around.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Katto » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:51 am

raja wrote:
Katto wrote:I feel like the first post in this thread was loaded now

Loaded in what sense? :grin:


You were locked and loaded ready to go with your Ryan Harris agenda :lol:

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby bolero » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:00 am

I must add a caveat that I have my own biases. I like Mitchell Johnson (everyone on this forum knows that), Gillespie and Pat Cummins.

That reflects somewhere in my ratings. Have tried to be objective.

I used to pay this song " Fast Car " by Tracy Chapman (Grammy Award winner) when McGrath came on to bowl.

Somehow that song synced with his bowling action.

Talking about songs, during the 2011 World Cup, India won one league encounter when I was in the gym. Subsequently I ensured that I am in the gym for the quarter finals against Australia, semis against Pak and finals against SL. Also got the gym to play " Tik Tik Tok " by Kesha.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:02 am

That was the thing with McGrath.
Even the mighty BCCI side of the time (Sehwag, Sachin, Dravid, Laxman) had to respect his accuracy and skill.

My abiding memory of McGrath in India is that opening Test at Bangalore in the 2004-05 series.
Australia were desperate to win a series in India - for two reasons.
One, they wanted to avenge their last defeat (the 2001 series when Harbhajan and Laxman had shocked that all-conquering Aussie side).
Two, India was by then considered the final frontier. The Aussies had done very well in every other country - but hadn't won a series in India since Bill Lawry's 1969-70 side.
So before the series started, the Aussies were talking of "the last frontier". Ponting had to drop out, so Gilchrist was captain.

Bangalore was the series opener - and as with all series openers, it was psychologically very important to start off well.

Thanks to Clarke and Gilchrist, Australia got of to a very impressive first innings score after looking like being in trouble.
But it looked like a good batting wicket, and BCCI was on a high (having won its first overseas series in Pakistan, racking up big scores).
So we were all pretty confident BCCI would respond well.

In a matter of 15 minutes, McGrath changed all that.

He first got Akash Chopra lbw without a run on the board.
Then (and I can never forget this!), he got Dravid, of all persons, bowled by an absolute peach of a delivery.
For a duck.

That pretty much set the tone not just for that Test but for the series. In the second innings too, McGrath got rid of Sehwag for a duck early on - and that pretty much put BCCI on the backfoot straightaway. Getting Sehwag early was always a psychological advantage for the opposition.

McGrath had the knack of picking key wickets. It was like he targeted the best batsmen of the side.
Sachin got out to him in key matches - notably World Cup games.

You might find the odd BCCI fan not having a great opinion of Shane Warne's bowling (he didn't do great in India) but it's hard to find a BCCI
fan who doesn't respect McGrath's bowling. He totally earned that respect.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby bolero » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:11 am

My abiding memory of McGrath getting India's goat when India toured Australia in '99 , '00. Debang Gandhi and Vijay Bharadwaj who only a few months earlier was touted a great allrounder in India looked hapless in front of McGrath. He played with them like a cat playing with helpless pigeons.

Tendulkar was the only bulwark and someone feared by the Aussies, was the captain too. He was under pressure all the time as others failed.

McGrath got him out to some controversial umpiring decisions, one he ducked to a bouncer, it hit him on his back (or was it bum) and was given LBW. Given out at critical moments by umpiring decisions. McGrath even sledged him after he got him out forgetting it was a dubious decision in the first place.

Also who can forget World Cup 2003 when he got Dravid and Tendulkar successively. McGrath was class.

In that '99 series, I remember Brett Lee bowling Kanitkar with a 150 kmph + delivery, that was a brute of a yorker. But I felt Brett Lee blatantly chucked that one in replays.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Katto » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:19 am

I was at that game when Tendulkar ducked a 'bouncer'. Looked out to me :)
The pitch was dead and Tendulkar isn't exactly endowed with height.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby bolero » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:29 am

Katto wrote:I was at that game when Tendulkar ducked a 'bouncer'. Looked out to me :)
The pitch was dead and Tendulkar isn't exactly endowed with height.


:lol:

It created a furore in the press, I remember.

After sometime, the match fixing scandal erupted in 2000 and Indian cricket was in turmoil. Azhar was banned for life, Tendulkar resigned from captaincy and Ganguly was made the captain.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby bolero » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:48 am

Enumerating on what happened to Gandhi, Bharadwaj and MSK Prasad after the Australian tour.

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/141123/ ... -australia

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby bolero » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:51 am

MSK Prasad is now the BCCI selection committee chairman. A guy who had a disastrous test career now deciding who to select and who not.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Boycs » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:56 am

bolero wrote:I must add a caveat that I have my own biases. I like Mitchell Johnson (everyone on this forum knows that), Gillespie and Pat Cummins.

That reflects somewhere in my ratings. Have tried to be objective.

I used to pay this song " Fast Car " by Tracy Chapman (Grammy Award winner) when McGrath came on to bowl.

Somehow that song synced with his bowling action.

Talking about songs, during the 2011 World Cup, India won one league encounter when I was in the gym. Subsequently I ensured that I am in the gym for the quarter finals against Australia, semis against Pak and finals against SL. Also got the gym to play " Tik Tik Tok " by Kesha.


I imagine Mitchel Johnson had a more Motörhead “Ace of Spades” vibe

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby bolero » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:19 am

True that.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby bolero » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:40 am

Brett Lee had a fad for music. I have seen him with the guitar.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Katto » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:04 am

bolero wrote:Brett Lee had a fad for music. I have seen him with the guitar.


he has a band called 6 and Out :lol:

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby bolero » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:08 am

What a name for the band !

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Katto » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:13 am

bolero wrote:What a name for the band !


for context, in Australia cricket is usually played in yards (rather than in the street)... well that was the case in the 80's when Brett (and I) were growing up anyway. Its changing now as there is less space in Aussie cities than there used to be. Although I played most of my cricket on a corner vacant lot which was about half the size of a football field so it wasn't an issue.

A 6 usually meant into the neighbour's yard which meant someone had to fetch the ball. ...an imposition which resulted in the back yard rule of hit a 6 and get out.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby bolero » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:19 am

Interesting.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby bolero » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:25 am

We initially played underarm cricket in a buildings compound. No runs if we score on the leg side. Negative line (Ashley Giles over the wicket) not allowed. Smashed some windows personally and had to flee before the owner found out.

Overarm cricket played in a ground. Favourite fielding position was backward point.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Katto » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:40 am

bolero wrote:We initially played underarm cricket in a buildings compound. No runs if we score on the leg side. Negative line (Ashley Giles over the wicket) not allowed. Smashed some windows personally and had to flee before the owner found out.

Overarm cricket played in a ground. Favourite fielding position was backward point.


:lol:

yeah windows are the enemy of cricket balls everywhere
or is it the other way around :think:

its amazing how environmental conditions dictate the way you play and hence your strengths and weaknesses too

where i played was on a slope. I used to bat right handed and was good at cutting, because it also meant the ball went down the hill.
Then I switched to play left handed because of Alan Border and played a lot of pull shots for the same reason.

I probably should've bowled leg spin though but had no idea how. I could only bowl wrong-uns as it felt natural and was able to turn them up the hill

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:52 am

I grew up in rural India at a time when there was plenty of land available for sports.
We used to play on a big, barren, field.
Now when I think about it, I'm amazed how we didn't think twice about playing on it- we played with a cork ball, no matting, the bounce was often uneven, and all the protective gear we had was a pair of flimsy pads and terrible gloves (which also I rarely used). No abdomen guard, arm guard, no helmet.

And we had guys who used to bowl REAL quick. Only our eyesight and quick reflexes protected us.

Now when I think about it, it was sheer madness. But none of us thought for a moment about the danger of the situation.

And this went on for years.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Katto » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:13 am

great stories
the thing about cricket, you only need three people for a game... or two people and a wall :)

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Going South » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:12 pm

so now all of sudden raja see playing against india or playing in india as a bench mark to decide a player’s worth? hahahahahaha how convenient !!!

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Going South » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:14 pm

from everyone’s list there are 5 folks that are common from bottom of list.
who are these people? LOL. THEY DONT BELONG IN THIS LIST in the first list itself, they go in “also played for Australia category” ;)

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby raja » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:14 am

Going South wrote:so now all of sudden raja see playing against india or playing in india as a bench mark to decide a player’s worth? hahahahahaha how convenient !!!


For any cricketer, his performance in conditions not naturally conducive to his strength is worth recognising if he manages to still come on top.
Why just cricket? Federer winning the French Open once was a big surprise - and creditable - only because his strength is certainly not clay. He overcame supposedly far better players of clay to win the title.

Playing to your strength is far easier than overcoming your weakness.

In that context, if a wicket is unfriendly towards quicks - and a fast bowler still manages to get wickets, that too prized ones like Dravid, should that not be appreciated?

Michael Holding's feat at the Oval in 1976, when he took 14 wickets to crush England, was remarkable because it was a dead wicket, on which Viv Richards had just scored 291. Of the 14 he took, 9 were bowled, 3 were lbw. Only 2 needed fielders to assist.

It is purely in this context that I appreciated McGrath's performance in 2004-05 in India.

When BCCI batsmen demonstrate that they have overcome their weakness against the moving ball, I will be very happy.

I did compliment them recently when I saw them standing up to SA quicks, even taking body blows.

It's all about overcoming unfavourable conditions.

Regardless of whether these are in India or England or South Africa or wherever else.

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby Katto » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:19 am

its fair to say I probably overrated Starc based on a recent performance

8 is a fairer value

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Re: Rate these Aussie quicks (Tests)

Postby baggygreenmania » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:34 am

[quote="raja"]For no reason in particular, have been thinking of Aussie quicks of the last 20-odd years.
So thought I'd start a thread on this, making it a discussion topic.

You need to rate these players on a scale of 10, keeping only TEST cricket in mind.
Rating must be on their bowling ability alone, nothing else.
Players are mentioned in random order, does not reflect my preference.



1) Glenn McGrath 10
2) Stuart Clark 7
3) Jason Gillespie 8
4) Mitchell Johnson 8
5) Peter Siddle 7
6) Doug Bollinger 8
7) Ben Hilfenhaus 7
8) James Pattinson 7
10) Josh Hazlewood 9
11) Ryan Harris 8
12) Mitchell Starc 8
13) Pat Cummins 9
14) Brett Lee 8
15) Nathan Bracken 3
16) Michael Kasprowicz 8
17) Damien Fleming 7
18) Andy Bichel 7

My current players are where they will finish careers. Reckon you have covered most raja. You said 20 yrs so that leaves out blokes like McDermott and Rackermann. I reckon I am being generous to Johnson.. yes he won a couple of ICC best bowlers awards but he was mostly inconsistent over a long career. Also being generous to Starc as he has taken almost 7 yrs to get to where he is and that is averaging the best part of @30. Bracken does not rate as he was mostly an ODI specialist. Only 5 matches @42. I wanted to give Andy Bichel more points but his 19 matches only yeielded 54 wkts @32. A terrific FC record tho with a whopping 769w @25.9. Bich was an under rated bowler.