BCCI's overseas record

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BCCI's overseas record

Postby raja » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:27 pm

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/ ... rd-problem

Can't play swing
And can't play pace
Overseas
They're a disgrace

When I see
Them no1 in the race
it's hard for me
to keep a straight face

Some of these guys
are just a basket case
Surely we've better folks
to take their place?
:grin:

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby Yorkshire » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:46 pm

My friend
We are still test number 1 we will consolidate by midnight June 17th 2018
We will talks later about July aug series vs eng.

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby raja » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:50 pm

We're looking only at Tests here, not ODIs & T20s.
In limited-overs formats, BCCI still does well overseas.

But in Tests, despite their Ashes loss, England are miles ahead of BCCI overseas.
They won in South Africa last time, didn't they?
When Ben Stokes hit that double hundred?

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby raja » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:54 pm

Yorkshire wrote:My friend
We are still test number 1 we will consolidate by midnight June 17th 2018
We will talks later about July aug series vs eng.


To be Test No.1 riding on a series of home series wins, in a calendar conveniently filled with home series, is to make a mockery of rankings.

I'd be happy to see BCCI at No.1 if they win series in South Africa (already lost), England (series coming up) and Australia (got thrashed to "smith"ereens the last time they toured there).

Not saying they're not capable of winning these series - they are. But until that happens, this will be a very dubious No.1 ranking for me. :-)

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby Paddles » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:21 pm

raja wrote:We're looking only at Tests here, not ODIs & T20s.
In limited-overs formats, BCCI still does well overseas.

But in Tests, despite their Ashes loss, England are miles ahead of BCCI overseas.
They won in South Africa last time, didn't they?
When Ben Stokes hit that double hundred?


Eng was so lucky in that series that Safrica was a walking wounded team. Even at home last year, if Philander had stayed fit, Steyn been fit or Abbot remained loyal then England was in big trouble.

Safrica is the benchmark for me at the moment. I've been saying this for a while now.
Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsman
A third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby Paddles » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:24 pm

raja wrote:
Yorkshire wrote:My friend
We are still test number 1 we will consolidate by midnight June 17th 2018
We will talks later about July aug series vs eng.


To be Test No.1 riding on a series of home series wins, in a calendar conveniently filled with home series, is to make a mockery of rankings.

I'd be happy to see BCCI at No.1 if they win series in South Africa (already lost), England (series coming up) and Australia (got thrashed to "smith"ereens the last time they toured there).

Not saying they're not capable of winning these series - they are. But until that happens, this will be a very dubious No.1 ranking for me. :-)


The home scheduling 2 year inequalities either has to stop, or the ICC test championship switch to a 4 year home and away format, or a lot of the cricket world will lose interest in the new test championship.
Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsman
A third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby Leo » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:45 am

During the Ganguly era India started to win test matches overseas.

What are the difference between that team and present one?
Time is the Best Speaker

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby raja » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:45 am

Leo wrote:During the Ganguly era India started to win test matches overseas.

What are the difference between that team and present one?


The batting then was feared by the opposition much more than today.

Sehwag blunted attacks, home or away. His partner, whether Akash Chopra or even Gambhir (himself an accomplished opener) just had to hang around and watch the Sehwag show. Dhawan isn't half as prolific, though he seems to have almost the same aggressive intent. Murali Vijay is decent but looks like an edge any moment. He anyway huffs and puffs his way to 40 - not very authoritative. KL Rahul, for all his talent, gets himself out too often for my liking.

Dravid at No.3 was the Wall. With due respect to Pujara, his overseas performance is way below par, compared to his home performances.
No3 is a key position in that, if one opener fails, you immediately have pressure on No.3 walking in.
Dravid handled that pressure very well.

Tendulkar at 4 is comparable with Kohli. Am not getting into a debate on this here.

Laxman did poorly in England and SA but was boss in Australia. Rohit Sharma is too casual, plays too much across the line (a problem Kohli has as well) to last long.

I don't know who the comparable guy for No.6 is for Ganguly, but if it is Pandya or Ashwin, I don't need to elaborate. :-)

Rahane might just make it as a right-handed Ganguly, as a decent batsman for overseas conditions.
Even there I'd give Ganguly the edge.

The previous generation, brought up on first-class cricket (longer format), didn't try to score runs off every ball (except Sehwag :-)). They knew when to defend, when to let the ball go, when to punish a loose delivery. Just the basics - every batsman worth his salt and aspiring to be a Test batsman should know this.

Today we have batsmen (I'm looking especially at you, Rahul) who get flustered if they haven't scored off 2 deliveries.

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby Leo » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:23 am

^^ You told only about batting. What about bowling? On that time Indian bowlers were used to take wickets in overseas condition. A bolwer like Ajit Agarkar took 6 wickets in Australia in an innings.

I think the motivation for the players are not up to the mark. On that time Indian team was motivated. They always put some extra effort to win a test mach. This team is highly lack on that. Their body language is not up to the mark. They store it for IPL? May be. If so, then Captaincy is the reason behind it. It is one of the duty of a captain to motivate players.
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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby raja » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:32 am

I didn't discuss the bowling because I don't think Indian bowling has changed that much.
Yes, then you had Zaheer Khan and Kumble, but today's bowlers are no better or worse.
Agarkar had one match-winning game, Sreesanth had one match-winning performance.
The current lot can produce that, even if they haven't done it yet.

It is the decline in batting that is the key.
These guys don't seem to be able to bat out a full day overseas.
They seem to be in a hurry to throw away their wickets.

Pujara was touted as the next Dravid. Maybe in home conditions, he's shown that ability. Overseas, he hasn't been half as solid.
That puts pressure on Kohli too.
And the openers, whichever combo, are struggling too.
Would be nice if Kohli could walk in with the score 200/2. :-)

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby Katto » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:42 am

Leo wrote:During the Ganguly era India started to win test matches overseas.

What are the difference between that team and present one?


they actually played test matches overseas is the difference whilst this Kohli era team has been cotton wooled on the SC until now

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby Paddles » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:19 am

raja wrote:
Leo wrote:During the Ganguly era India started to win test matches overseas.

What are the difference between that team and present one?


The batting then was feared by the opposition much more than today.

Sehwag blunted attacks, home or away. His partner, whether Akash Chopra or even Gambhir (himself an accomplished opener) just had to hang around and watch the Sehwag show. Dhawan isn't half as prolific, though he seems to have almost the same aggressive intent. Murali Vijay is decent but looks like an edge any moment. He anyway huffs and puffs his way to 40 - not very authoritative. KL Rahul, for all his talent, gets himself out too often for my liking.

Dravid at No.3 was the Wall. With due respect to Pujara, his overseas performance is way below par, compared to his home performances.
No3 is a key position in that, if one opener fails, you immediately have pressure on No.3 walking in.
Dravid handled that pressure very well.

Tendulkar at 4 is comparable with Kohli. Am not getting into a debate on this here.

Laxman did poorly in England and SA but was boss in Australia. Rohit Sharma is too casual, plays too much across the line (a problem Kohli has as well) to last long.

I don't know who the comparable guy for No.6 is for Ganguly, but if it is Pandya or Ashwin, I don't need to elaborate. :-)

Rahane might just make it as a right-handed Ganguly, as a decent batsman for overseas conditions.
Even there I'd give Ganguly the edge.

The previous generation, brought up on first-class cricket (longer format), didn't try to score runs off every ball (except Sehwag :-)). They knew when to defend, when to let the ball go, when to punish a loose delivery. Just the basics - every batsman worth his salt and aspiring to be a Test batsman should know this.

Today we have batsmen (I'm looking especially at you, Rahul) who get flustered if they haven't scored off 2 deliveries.


Sehwag was very ordinary in NZ, SA and Eng.
Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsman
A third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby bolero » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:50 am

Sehwag was very ordinary in NZ, but if I am not mistaken, he does have a test century to his name in Engalnd and SA.

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby bolero » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:34 am

Yup, 106 and 105 at Trent Bridge and Bloemfontein.

But Sehwag struggled against Shane Bond big time.Couldn't handle the 147 kmph deliveries, inswingers at the stumps.

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby Paddles » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:57 pm

bolero wrote:Sehwag was very ordinary in NZ, but if I am not mistaken, he does have a test century to his name in Engalnd and SA.


He does. But he still averaged in the 20s in all 3.
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A third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby Going South » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:21 pm

raja wrote:I didn't discuss the bowling because I don't think Indian bowling has changed that much.
Yes, then you had Zaheer Khan and Kumble, but today's bowlers are no better or worse.
Agarkar had one match-winning game, Sreesanth had one match-winning performance.
The current lot can produce that, even if they haven't done it yet.

It is the decline in batting that is the key.
These guys don't seem to be able to bat out a full day overseas.
They seem to be in a hurry to throw away their wickets.

Pujara was touted as the next Dravid. Maybe in home conditions, he's shown that ability. Overseas, he hasn't been half as solid.
That puts pressure on Kohli too.
And the openers, whichever combo, are struggling too.
Would be nice if Kohli could walk in with the score 200/2. :-)

ha. now what you think of today’s performance of BCCI bowlers ?

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Re: BCCI's overseas record

Postby raja » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:10 pm

Very good.
Of course, with a lot of assistance from the wicket.
But yes, very well done.