Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:50 am

shameful how he's trying to use the political correctness virtue signal card to curry favour with the court

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:36 am

Katto wrote:shameful how he's trying to use the political correctness virtue signal card to curry favour with the court


Its not about "currying favour", its about the court having the full story to determine the degree of culpability for the appropriate charge, if any, whether any available defenses apply such as self defense of another, and if found guilty of that charge, and whether there ought to be any mitigation in sentencing.

Ask yourself, if Ben Stokes had knocked out the guy because he was gay, or a stranger, is that any different to Ben Stokes knocking out a guy who had been starting a fight and mouthing off anti-homosexual insults to an innocent by-stander? Should excessive self-defence, which is an assault, be treated the same as cases where there was just an assault?

Why shouldn't Stokes be able to tell the world what happened? And the court needs to know so it can process the case on its own facts like it does with every case.

There's nothing novel about this nor "currying favour" - the guidelines seek this type of information.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Assault_definitive_guideline_-_Crown_Court.pdf

Even possible career impact detriment is relevant for the court in sentencing, if not always equal. A gang member with priors cares less for another conviction than a sports person who will lose their career over a conviction. Even a self employed businessmen will be less adversely affected (unless needing to travel regularly) than Ben Stokes. It is all a balancing act.

This Stokes case is not the typical facts of an assault in the least.

I would have thought that if anything was to be accused as "currying favour" it would not even be doing rehabilitation treatment programmes whether drug, alcohol or anger type before a case but taking up charity work and philanthropy after charge but before sentencing. But people often do, and the court may at times or often even acknowledge the persons efforts as demonstrating genuine remorse and paying a debt to society, not as "currying favour". Either it is genuine, and if not, even if totally shameful they're paying in part a different penalty, albeit voluntarily. The court will seek to enquire and favour the genuine more tho I imagine.
Last edited by Paddles on Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby raja » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:05 am

So is he going to join the squad?
Might as well - England/Aussie cricketers dream of Ashes series, would be a pity if he missed out.

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:08 am

raja wrote:So is he going to join the squad?
Might as well - England/Aussie cricketers dream of Ashes series, would be a pity if he missed out.


What stage is his case at?

Has Stokes entered a plea yet?

If his plea is not guilty then supposed to be innocent till proven guilty.

It would be a pity if found not guilty to have missed out, indeed.

But that doesn't always resonate with those with sway over selection be it for public relations or another reason, nor the players themselves at times. Scott Kuggelijn was reportedly okay with his non selection by NZ and NZA as he didn't want further distraction till his trial was concluded finally.

That leaves the remaining issue whether Australia customs is cautious that he will seek to flee in Australia or assault someone in Australia and not grant him a visa.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Boycs » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:46 am

Paddles wrote:
raja wrote:So is he going to join the squad?
Might as well - England/Aussie cricketers dream of Ashes series, would be a pity if he missed out.


What stage is his case at?

Has Stokes entered a plea yet?


He’s not even been charged. He’s still out on bail.

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:08 am

Boycs wrote:
Paddles wrote:
What stage is his case at?

Has Stokes entered a plea yet?


He’s not even been charged. He’s still out on bail.


Police bail without being charged?

Its well past 28 days even if falling into any exception the new 2017 legislation left eroding police bail left.

Police are not able to just extend bail willy nilly without ever laying charges. Habeas Corpus. Interview the suspect, interview the witnesses, interview the victims, watch the cctv - what good reason for a further hold up?
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Boycs » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:36 pm

He's not on actual bail, I merely used the term as I didn't expect you to be well informed on the newly created 'Release Under Investigation' (nothing personal, even someone of your intelligence why would a Kiwi know/care about a new piece of UK legislation?) and there is no limit to RUI.

On the other hand, you are Paddles and I should have expected you to know everything :P

It did take a while for these witnesses to come forward, but no I agree it has been a very long while for a simple ABH case you would think. I'm obviously no expert.

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:56 pm

:lol: :popcorn:

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Boycs » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:36 pm

Cant imagine the police are going to be speaking to the media about the incident but no doubt the ECB will be issuing a press release the moment something develops

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:20 pm

Boycs wrote:He's not on actual bail, I merely used the term as I didn't expect you to be well informed on the newly created 'Release Under Investigation' (nothing personal, even someone of your intelligence why would a Kiwi know/care about a new piece of UK legislation?)


Its how I roll.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Mick180461 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:25 pm

As far as i can see Stokes stepped in to defend another person from Physical attack, which under Common Law in most countries you are alowed to use the minimum amount of force required to stop an attack. The problem for Stokes appears to be he may have gone to far, reports are he threw 15 punches in a minute. Thats what the Police will be looking at, did he need to go as far as he did.

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:29 pm

Mick180461 wrote:As far as i can see Stokes stepped in to defend another person from Physical attack, which under Common Law in most countries you are alowed to use the minimum amount of force required to stop an attack. The problem for Stokes appears to be he may have gone to far, reports are he threw 15 punches in a minute. Thats what the Police will be looking at, did he need to go as far as he did.


Not minimum objectively assessed as it were, but reasonable, in circumstances typically measured subjectively (not objectively) is the typical common law.

I think that the bigger problem for Stokes isn't the number of punches itself, but during the fight after punches have been thrown but before he knocks the person out, is the guy backing away and Stokes carrying on forward to him. Stokes has to have subjectively felt that if he didn't continue to act in the way he did, he or the person he was defending was still in danger. Did Stokes think this was so and did he use reasonable amount of force as required by the situation as he thought it to be or was he aware or reckless of the risk he was doing more than what was required by the situation?

"... in the defence of himself or herself or another, such force as, in the circumstances as he or she (honestly) believes them to be, it is reasonable to use" confirmed in R v Griffiths 1988

in Stokes' favour, is that one of the two "victims" had tried to assault someone in Stoke's party with a bottle then Stokes entered the affray with punches. The fight was not all one way traffic to begin with with Stokes taken to ground. The question is, had it turned when the victims were backing away, what was said by the "victim" and his mate is potentially relevant to the case here, such as any threats of immediate harm, before Stokes deals the knock out blow.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Mick180461 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:33 am

We've got it all wrong. Johnny Bairstow headbutted Cam Bancroft in a Pub on Sunday night, purely as a friendly greeting, Bancroft thought it a bit strange but took no offence and they spent some time talking.

So what Stokes was actually doing was introducing himself, asking the guy how he was, how the missus was, how the Kids where, what he done for a living, what football team he followed, what chance they had of retaining the Ashes, what School he went to, did he know Joe Root, what Beer he drank.
Just a complete and absolute missunderstanding and Stokes should have gone to the Emergency Ward and explained all that. :dance:

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Ben Stokes

Postby Yorkshire » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:13 am


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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby Paddles » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:18 am

Yorkshire, you're beginning to start as many threads as Bolero.

There is already a Ben Stokes thread.

Why don't you add to existing threads anything that isn't worthy of its own thread?
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Boycs » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:07 am

Stokes is apparently off to New Zealand to play cricket.

Just put him on a plane to Australia for God’s sake

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:28 am

Boycs wrote:Stokes is apparently off to New Zealand to play cricket.

Just put him on a plane to Australia for God’s sake


Reported as visiting his family for Christmas, but the local provinces are keen for him to play cricket while here.

Hopefully he doesn't take any promising talent to England with him.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:36 am

Far too much press in NZ about Ben Stokes rather than NZ cricket itself.

The Stokes' circus in NZ is a non - event; innocent until proven guilty. He's not even been charged. EWCB even gave a no objection. NZC and Canterbury realise this, so do most journos in NZ - so enough with the beat up already.

The only actual story is whether he ought to be playing for England right now or whether EWCB could have conducted its review of the matter by now instead of waiting till the Crown decides there's; still not yet facing charges let alone found guilty.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:43 am

Paddles wrote:Far too much press in NZ about Ben Stokes rather than NZ cricket itself.

The Stokes' circus in NZ is a non - event; innocent until proven guilty. He's not even been charged. EWCB even gave a no objection. NZC and Canterbury realise this, so do most journos in NZ - so enough with the beat up already.

The only actual story is whether he ought to be playing for England right now or whether EWCB could have conducted its review of the matter by now instead of waiting till the Crown decides there's; still not yet facing charges let alone found guilty.


are you trying to say the video is inconclusive?

of course its a big deal in NZ, nothing else happens there apart from the odd earthquake.

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:05 pm

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:Far too much press in NZ about Ben Stokes rather than NZ cricket itself.

The Stokes' circus in NZ is a non - event; innocent until proven guilty. He's not even been charged. EWCB even gave a no objection. NZC and Canterbury realise this, so do most journos in NZ - so enough with the beat up already.

The only actual story is whether he ought to be playing for England right now or whether EWCB could have conducted its review of the matter by now instead of waiting till the Crown decides there's; still not yet facing charges let alone found guilty.


are you trying to say the video is inconclusive?



So you're saying its innocent until proven guilty unless there's video? I'm saying the right of Ben Stokes that he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Stokes has not even been charged, let alone found guilty.

What have you concluded from the video? What charge, if any, and do you have Stokes convicted, or not guilty?

As far as the video being inconclusive of Stokes' guilt or innocence, this is a separate question to innocent until proven guilty as a legal right. I'm not the English police, but I suspect the reason they have passed the file to the prosecutors to decide whether to progress to having the police charge Ben Stokes is his possible self defense of another defense or any further possible defense due to events before Ben Stokes starts punching or subsequent. For that, the video and eye witness testimony combined will be further evidence, and there will probably be further evidence raised as well. While all the focus has been on Ben Stokes punches, people seem to have forgotten that he throws punches after a member in his party is attacked by a man swinging a bottle.

The video itself does not fulfill the role of judge and jury, nor is the video the sole evidence, nor does it attempt to answer questions of (often mixed fact and) law, nor would it be the only facts to be found if a self defense of another plead or another possible defense is raised.

This is before sentencing and a conviction of being found guilty is made.

There is a chance that Ben Stokes will not have charges laid against him. If he's not charged, he has not been found guilty of this alleged 'crime on video'. You do realize this?

Its not against the law to punch people, its against the law to do so without justification or a lawful and complete excuse.

I'm not a criminal lawyer, but Stokes initial flurry of punches doesn't appear to be as much of an issue for Stokes' (subject to what was being said at that time) possible defences. The greater issue for Ben, (and presumably the Police in sending it to the Prosecutors) is the seconds before the final punch, where the victim is seen to be backing away. This is where the law and the facts mix to pose the question of a self defense plea. Has Stokes now gone too far by unreasonably continuing the physical altercation in the circumstances as he believed them to be? If the prosecutors refer the police to charge, this will then be for a court to determine and make factual findings and then apply the law to these facts, watching the video and listening to the eye witness testimony.

Again, I'm not a criminal lawyer, but I wouldn't bet the house on a Stokes' conviction here, but I only have access to the video on youtube, not all the evidence. From the video, his friend was attacked with a bottle before Stokes' throws punches, and the melee was not all one way traffic to begin with as Stokes is taken to ground. The possible problem for Ben is the seconds before his final punch. That is why is not over for Ben just yet. But is it enough of a problem that he will be charged and then found guilty and convicted? If he is, of what crime due to the victim's role in the assault? This can influence the charge, not just a mitigating factor in sentencing.

So long story short, the video almost certainly does not contain the entirety of the evidence, the video does not answer legal questions of law as applied to these facts, and the video does not make factual findings - it is merely evidence.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:09 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
are you trying to say the video is inconclusive?



So you're saying its innocent until proven guilty unless there's video? I'm saying the right of Ben Stokes that he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Stokes has not even been charged, let alone found guilty.

What have you concluded from the video? What charge, if any, and do you have Stokes convicted, or not guilty?

As far as the video being inconclusive of Stokes' guilt or innocence, this is a separate question to innocent until proven guilty as a legal right. I'm not the English police, but I suspect the reason they have passed the file to the prosecutors to decide whether to progress to having the police charge Ben Stokes is his possible self defense of another defense or any further possible defense due to events before Ben Stokes starts punching or subsequent. For that, the video and eye witness testimony combined will be further evidence, and there will probably be further evidence raised as well. While all the focus has been on Ben Stokes punches, people seem to have forgotten that he throws punches after a member in his party is attacked by a man swinging a bottle.

The video itself does not fulfill the role of judge and jury, nor is the video the sole evidence, nor does it attempt to answer questions of (often mixed fact and) law, nor would it be the only facts to be found if a self defense of another plead or another possible defense is raised.

This is before sentencing and a conviction of being found guilty is made.

There is a chance that Ben Stokes will not have charges laid against him. If he's not charged, he has not been found guilty of this alleged 'crime on video'. You do realize this?

Its not against the law to punch people, its against the law to do so without justification or a lawful and complete excuse.

I'm not a criminal lawyer, but Stokes initial flurry of punches doesn't appear to be as much of an issue for Stokes' (subject to what was being said at that time) possible defences. The greater issue for Ben, (and presumably the Police in sending it to the Prosecutors) is the seconds before the final punch, where the victim is seen to be backing away. This is where the law and the facts mix to pose the question of a self defense plea. Has Stokes now gone too far by unreasonably continuing the physical altercation in the circumstances as he believed them to be? If the prosecutors refer the police to charge, this will then be for a court to determine and make factual findings and then apply the law to these facts, watching the video and listening to the eye witness testimony.

Again, I'm not a criminal lawyer, but I wouldn't bet the house on a Stokes' conviction here, but I only have access to the video on youtube, not all the evidence. From the video, his friend was attacked with a bottle before Stokes' throws punches, and the melee was not all one way traffic to begin with as Stokes is taken to ground. The possible problem for Ben is the seconds before his final punch. That is why is not over for Ben just yet. But is it enough of a problem that he will be charged and then found guilty and convicted? If he is, of what crime due to the victim's role in the assault? This can influence the charge, not just a mitigating factor in sentencing.

So long story short, the video almost certainly does not contain the entirety of the evidence, the video does not answer legal questions of law as applied to these facts, and the video does not make factual findings - it is merely evidence.


yes or no?

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:30 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
So you're saying its innocent until proven guilty unless there's video? I'm saying the right of Ben Stokes that he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Stokes has not even been charged, let alone found guilty.

What have you concluded from the video? What charge, if any, and do you have Stokes convicted, or not guilty?

As far as the video being inconclusive of Stokes' guilt or innocence, this is a separate question to innocent until proven guilty as a legal right. I'm not the English police, but I suspect the reason they have passed the file to the prosecutors to decide whether to progress to having the police charge Ben Stokes is his possible self defense of another defense or any further possible defense due to events before Ben Stokes starts punching or subsequent. For that, the video and eye witness testimony combined will be further evidence, and there will probably be further evidence raised as well. While all the focus has been on Ben Stokes punches, people seem to have forgotten that he throws punches after a member in his party is attacked by a man swinging a bottle.

The video itself does not fulfill the role of judge and jury, nor is the video the sole evidence, nor does it attempt to answer questions of (often mixed fact and) law, nor would it be the only facts to be found if a self defense of another plead or another possible defense is raised.

This is before sentencing and a conviction of being found guilty is made.

There is a chance that Ben Stokes will not have charges laid against him. If he's not charged, he has not been found guilty of this alleged 'crime on video'. You do realize this?

Its not against the law to punch people, its against the law to do so without justification or a lawful and complete excuse.

I'm not a criminal lawyer, but Stokes initial flurry of punches doesn't appear to be as much of an issue for Stokes' (subject to what was being said at that time) possible defences. The greater issue for Ben, (and presumably the Police in sending it to the Prosecutors) is the seconds before the final punch, where the victim is seen to be backing away. This is where the law and the facts mix to pose the question of a self defense plea. Has Stokes now gone too far by unreasonably continuing the physical altercation in the circumstances as he believed them to be? If the prosecutors refer the police to charge, this will then be for a court to determine and make factual findings and then apply the law to these facts, watching the video and listening to the eye witness testimony.

Again, I'm not a criminal lawyer, but I wouldn't bet the house on a Stokes' conviction here, but I only have access to the video on youtube, not all the evidence. From the video, his friend was attacked with a bottle before Stokes' throws punches, and the melee was not all one way traffic to begin with as Stokes is taken to ground. The possible problem for Ben is the seconds before his final punch. That is why is not over for Ben just yet. But is it enough of a problem that he will be charged and then found guilty and convicted? If he is, of what crime due to the victim's role in the assault? This can influence the charge, not just a mitigating factor in sentencing.

So long story short, the video almost certainly does not contain the entirety of the evidence, the video does not answer legal questions of law as applied to these facts, and the video does not make factual findings - it is merely evidence.


yes or no?


If you don't want to read and comprehend, maybe I get you some crayons and you may go do some colouring in instead.

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:42 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
yes or no?


If you don't want to read and comprehend, maybe I get you some crayons and you may go do some colouring in instead.

If you don't appreciate me explaining law and logic to you, don't ask me questions.

yes or no?

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:43 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
If you don't want to read and comprehend, maybe I get you some crayons and you may go do some colouring in instead.

If you don't appreciate me explaining law and logic to you, don't ask me questions.

yes or no?


If you want a yes or no answer - phrase your question in a manner that contains sufficient detail so as to not need any further explanation.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:47 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:yes or no?


If you want a yes or no answer - phrase your question in a manner that contains sufficient detail so as to not need any further explanation.


are you trying to say the video is inconclusive?

yes or no?

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:50 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
If you want a yes or no answer - phrase your question in a manner that contains sufficient detail so as to not need any further explanation.


are you trying to say the video is inconclusive?

yes or no?


Inconclusive of what?
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:33 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
are you trying to say the video is inconclusive?

yes or no?


Inconclusive of what?


guilt

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:39 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Inconclusive of what?


guilt


guilt of what exactly?

How are you using the phrase "inconclusive of guilt"; are you asking me whether a judge or jury could reasonably conclude Ben Stokes guilt on watching the video alone regardless of further evidence? Or are you asking whether because of the video Ben Stokes for all intents and purposes may as well be treated as guilty and convicted now?
Last edited by Paddles on Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:44 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
guilt


guilt of what?


assault

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:49 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
guilt of what?


assault


How are you using the phrase "inconclusive of guilt (for) assault"; are you asking me whether a judge or jury could reasonably conclude Ben Stokes guilt for assault on watching the video alone regardless of further evidence? Or are you asking whether because of the video Ben Stokes for all legal intents and purposes may as well be treated as charged, guilty and convicted now of assault?
Last edited by Paddles on Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:50 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
assault


How are you using the phrase "inconclusive of guilt"; are you asking me whether a judge or jury could reasonably conclude Ben Stokes guilt for assault on watching the video alone regardless of further evidence? Or are you asking whether because of the video Ben Stokes for all intents and purposes may as well be treated as charged, guilty and convicted now?


I'm asking you, I'm not asking the judge or jury

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:53 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
How are you using the phrase "inconclusive of guilt"; are you asking me whether a judge or jury could reasonably conclude Ben Stokes guilt for assault on watching the video alone regardless of further evidence? Or are you asking whether because of the video Ben Stokes for all intents and purposes may as well be treated as charged, guilty and convicted now?


I'm asking you, I'm not asking the judge or jury


Which question?

Are you asking me whether a judge or jury will conclusively reasonably determine Ben Stokes guilt for assault on watching the video alone regardless of further evidence?

Or are you asking whether because of the video Ben Stokes for all intents and purposes may as well be treated as charged, guilty and convicted now?
Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsman
A third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:55 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
I'm asking you, I'm not asking the judge or jury


Which question?

Are you asking me whether a judge or jury will conclusively reasonably determine Ben Stokes guilt for assault on watching the video alone regardless of further evidence?

Or are you asking whether because of the video Ben Stokes for all intents and purposes may as well be treated as charged, guilty and convicted now?


FMD :doh: :doh: :doh:

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:58 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Which question?

Are you asking me whether a judge or jury will conclusively reasonably determine Ben Stokes guilt for assault on watching the video alone regardless of further evidence?

Or are you asking whether because of the video Ben Stokes for all intents and purposes may as well be treated as charged, guilty and convicted now?


FMD :doh: :doh: :doh:


So go back and read my earlier post and you may learn something Katto. I put effort into replying and explaining things clearly to you. But you are determined to try and be a smart ass.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:10 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
FMD :doh: :doh: :doh:


So go back and read my earlier post and you may learn something Katto. I put effort into replying and explaining things clearly to you. But you are determined to try and be a smart ass.


No you are determined to be a smart arse try hard. You wont answer the simplest of questions, frankly you come across as not all there in the head.

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:35 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
So go back and read my earlier post and you may learn something Katto. I put effort into replying and explaining things clearly to you. But you are determined to try and be a smart ass.


No you are determined to be a smart arse try hard. You wont answer the simplest of questions, frankly you come across as not all there in the head.


Katto - I have expressed clearly and with detail my take on the issues surrounding the possible and actual legal positions and rights of Ben Stokes after watching the video without being a "smart arse". But you seem to not want to read and comprehend it despite my efforts in writing it for you.

If you wish to make a statement about Ben Stokes and the video, conclusive of guilt, if any, and to what, his current legal rights and position, then there is nothing to stop you from doing so. If you wish to disagree with my earlier post. Go right ahead. I may even reply with why I agree or disagree with you.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:45 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
No you are determined to be a smart arse try hard. You wont answer the simplest of questions, frankly you come across as not all there in the head.


Katto - I have expressed clearly and with detail my take on the issues surrounding the possible and actual legal positions and rights of Ben Stokes after watching the video without being a "smart arse". But you seem to not want to read and comprehend it despite my efforts in writing it for you.

If you wish to make a statement about Ben Stokes and the video, conclusive of guilt, if any, and to what, his current legal rights and position, then there is nothing to stop you from doing so. If you wish to disagree with my earlier post. Go right ahead. I may even reply with why I agree or disagree with you.


Just so I know what I'm dealing with here, have you ever had an Asperger's diagnosis?

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:49 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Katto - I have expressed clearly and with detail my take on the issues surrounding the possible and actual legal positions and rights of Ben Stokes after watching the video without being a "smart arse". But you seem to not want to read and comprehend it despite my efforts in writing it for you.

If you wish to make a statement about Ben Stokes and the video, conclusive of guilt, if any, and to what, his current legal rights and position, then there is nothing to stop you from doing so. If you wish to disagree with my earlier post. Go right ahead. I may even reply with why I agree or disagree with you.


Just so I know what I'm dealing with here, have you ever had an Asperger's diagnosis?


Unfortunately, you seem to want to make me the subject matter of your discussion again and not in this instance, the Ben Stokes' legal issues.

Just say what you want to say about Ben Stokes playing for Canterbury, the video tape and his current legal issues.

Whether I have been diagnosed with Asperger's, or not, just isn't relevant to your take on Ben Stokes legal issues and the video.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:49 am

Stokes played like a spud for Canterbury in first game.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Boycs » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:08 pm

Like a potato facing assault charges?

Maybe he’ll just never come back to the uk

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Paddles » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:56 pm

Boycs wrote:Like a potato facing assault charges?

Maybe he’ll just never come back to the uk


Nah, there's more Kiwis on the way to UK to knock out some locals.

Joseph Parker has his sights set on Anthony Joshua for one.
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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Katto » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:08 pm

Do they still used leaded petrol in NZ?

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Re: Ben Stokes arrested in Bristol

Postby Boycs » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:28 pm

Alex Hales will not face any charges, ECB have said. He is available for selection now.

No news on stokes