BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:55 am

never watched IPL in my life

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby raja » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:19 am

How is the IPL telecast scene in Australia?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:22 am

Perth is three hrs behind the Eastern States. Can be a royal pain.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:23 am

raja wrote:How is the IPL telecast scene in Australia?
raja it is being shown this year by our Foxtel Channel. First time in several years I understand they have taken the coverage such was the lack of response by Australians.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:30 am

raja wrote:How is the IPL telecast scene in Australia?


Australians typically really aren't into the IPL.

It fares only slightly better in NZ, having been lost to NZ audiences for a long time after the first few initial seasons until the local NZ broadcaster presumably got a sweetheart deal to broadcast all Indian international cricket in NZ a few years ago, which is great, because your test matches are prime time viewing, and you continually have a supply of England, Safrica and Australia tour. Plus, the Indian team has been stacked with some tremendously entertaining middle order batting in recent years which provide excellent entertainment even if England is getting blown off the park.

At the end of the day, the IPL suffers what many football leagues and the NBA don't in achieving a global fan base, it is a domestic competition, not a premier player franchise competition.

But given that the global cricket audience is more than 2/3rds Indian, it is a successful formula nevertheless.

Most of the interest in NZ for IPL is around salaries of the league, the IPL Auction for NZ players gets far more attention than the results on the pitches does. But our cricket writers are keen and quick to discuss the success of NZ cricketers in the IPL, BBL or County Cricket. CPL less so, and PSL and BPL hardly get a murmour.

Put simply, if KW scores a 50 - it will be reported in NZ. But you won't find the IPL team ladder even in ours news websites, and if the IPL final doesn't contain a NZ player, don't expect it to be reported on unless Maxwell calls a reporter stupid, or Samuels mocks Shane Warne.*

* I am well aware that both events did not happen in regards to an IPL final, I am merely making a point about what is deemed newsworthy in NZ regards t20 played in India.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:11 am

Paddles wrote:
raja wrote:How is the IPL telecast scene in Australia?


Australians typically really aren't into the IPL.

It fares only slightly better in NZ, having been lost to NZ audiences for a long time after the first few initial seasons until the local NZ broadcaster presumably got a sweetheart deal to broadcast all Indian international cricket in NZ a few years ago, which is great, because your test matches are prime time viewing, and you continually have a supply of England, Safrica and Australia tour. Plus, the Indian team has been stacked with some tremendously entertaining middle order batting in recent years which provide excellent entertainment even if England is getting blown off the park.

At the end of the day, the IPL suffers what many football leagues and the NBA don't in achieving a global fan base, it is a domestic competition, not a premier player franchise competition.

But given that the global cricket audience is more than 2/3rds Indian, it is a successful formula nevertheless.

Most of the interest in NZ for IPL is around salaries of the league, the IPL Auction for NZ players gets far more attention than the results on the pitches does. But our cricket writers are keen and quick to discuss the success of NZ cricketers in the IPL, BBL or County Cricket. CPL less so, and PSL and BPL hardly get a murmour.

Put simply, if KW scores a 50 - it will be reported in NZ. But you won't find the IPL team ladder even in ours news websites, and if the IPL final doesn't contain a NZ player, don't expect it to be reported on unless Maxwell calls a reporter stupid, or Samuels mocks Shane Warne.*

* I am well aware that both events did not happen in regards to an IPL final, I am merely making a point about what is deemed newsworthy in NZ regards t20 played in India.


pretty much only Indian residents watch it

would be slightly better in NZ due to Auckland being > 10% Indian

The issue in Australia is there's only so much cricket you can watch in a year. The cricket season is over so its not on anyone's minds.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:28 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Australians typically really aren't into the IPL.

It fares only slightly better in NZ, having been lost to NZ audiences for a long time after the first few initial seasons until the local NZ broadcaster presumably got a sweetheart deal to broadcast all Indian international cricket in NZ a few years ago, which is great, because your test matches are prime time viewing, and you continually have a supply of England, Safrica and Australia tour. Plus, the Indian team has been stacked with some tremendously entertaining middle order batting in recent years which provide excellent entertainment even if England is getting blown off the park.

At the end of the day, the IPL suffers what many football leagues and the NBA don't in achieving a global fan base, it is a domestic competition, not a premier player franchise competition.

But given that the global cricket audience is more than 2/3rds Indian, it is a successful formula nevertheless.

Most of the interest in NZ for IPL is around salaries of the league, the IPL Auction for NZ players gets far more attention than the results on the pitches does. But our cricket writers are keen and quick to discuss the success of NZ cricketers in the IPL, BBL or County Cricket. CPL less so, and PSL and BPL hardly get a murmour.

Put simply, if KW scores a 50 - it will be reported in NZ. But you won't find the IPL team ladder even in ours news websites, and if the IPL final doesn't contain a NZ player, don't expect it to be reported on unless Maxwell calls a reporter stupid, or Samuels mocks Shane Warne.*

* I am well aware that both events did not happen in regards to an IPL final, I am merely making a point about what is deemed newsworthy in NZ regards t20 played in India.


pretty much only Indian residents watch it

would be slightly better in NZ due to Auckland being > 10% Indian

The issue in Australia is there's only so much cricket you can watch in a year. The cricket season is over so its not on anyone's minds.


Fair points, but I still believe that the fact that the IPL has been broadcast for years helps it fare ever so slightly better in NZ than in Aus, but not many are watching it. Just being on tv matters, NZ now has a small darts following now, based solely on the Xmas and NYE World Champs being broadcast here from the Ally Pally for a number of years.

Winter international cricket not involving rugby mad NZ will generate more interest than the IPL, like an Ashes tour of England, or anyone touring England for that matter better than the West Indies.

I personally enjoy the international cricket tours India gets and think that these audiences will increase well beyond Indian residents in NZ to mainstream cricket fans. Although Sri Lanka was a bit limp.

End of the day, people typically want to see their own teams play (international and domestic), then international cricket not involving their team, then foreign domestic. Perhaps some would like to watch foreign international more than their own domestic, I certainly can think of some series that this would be so for me and more fans. But foreign domestic is definitely the last resort for a typical cricket fan. I struggle to take a keen interest in County, BBL*, CPL, PSL, and BPL. But the IPL has this international window that leaves it without stiffer competition for me but with enough star players I like to follow. But I'd sooner watch and follow international cricket.

*Used to follow BBL but lost interest as the likes of Tait, Hussey, Warne et al retired.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:04 am

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/nsw-blu ... 2018-04-26 No sign of any selectors getting the bullet. Why? Some of their selections over past few years have been bewildering. Where are the next gen? Every other state gives their youngsters a good run.. not NSW. Arjun Nair has had a handful of games past two years with encouraging results with both bat and ball. Ryan Gibson should now have a regular gig in our top order with the ommision of the oh so inconsistent Nic Maddinson. Be patient with Gibson as he has masses of talent. Just needs to be given confidence. Is it time to introduce Jason Sangha to the big time? He is the second youngest batsman behind the Little Master..Sachin Tendulkar to score a century against a touring English side. Has one or two technical defects against express bowling.. but remember he is still 18. Perhaps another year in Seconds. Mickey Edwards must replace Gurinder Sandhu while Daniel Fallins should be the regular Blues spinner next season. Giant quick Harry Conway needs a solid season or he too could find himself in the cricketing wilderness. Is hard to equate him today with the same bowler who took an all bowled hatrick in the 2012 U19 WC. Keeper Peter Nevill will need to be at his best to ward off his emerging deputy Jay Lenton.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:36 am

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/adam-gi ... 2018-04-28

Good one Gilly. Now who will be his Foxtel team mates. BJ & AB are certs. Stuart Clark, Damien Fleming and Mark Waugh are probables, Ed Cowan a possible. Now Gilly has signed on as Fox host who will host the Seven coverage? Is Ricky Ponting penciled in for the job? Surely not Shane Warne. Talk is the corpse with pads Bill Lawry will play a commentating role or will he be retired to his pigeons?
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:34 am

The following is the reason Justin Langer will likely knock back the Aussie coaching position.

"Coaching Australia would mean travelling 11 months of the year.

"I love working at WACA, and working with the Scorchers. My family is all in Perth. I am a Perth boy and I love being home. So that’s why it is complicated.

"I’m also involved with five or six charities here in WA. And walking away from all that is not that easy to do."

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:58 am

Seems without Mike and the disappeared Mick there are no posters on this thread.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:03 am

they only watch channel 9
if there's no cricket on channel 9 there's no cricket on

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby raja » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:17 pm

So if Langer drops out, who are in contention?
Is Tom Moody an option?
He's currently coach of Sunrisers Hyderabad in the IPL - and doing a superb job.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:01 pm

raja wrote:So if Langer drops out, who are in contention?
Is Tom Moody an option?
He's currently coach of Sunrisers Hyderabad in the IPL - and doing a superb job.


No - Gillespie who has been a big shot since his time with Yorkshire and just won BBL with Adelaide - and a split with Ponting who wants a t20 coach role but not the test team.

Ponting's t20 makeover went a whole lot better than Aus odi team this summer.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:14 am

Well done girls.
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/austral ... 2018-04-29
Time the women were playing more Test cricket.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:27 am

Paddles wrote:
raja wrote:So if Langer drops out, who are in contention?
Is Tom Moody an option?
He's currently coach of Sunrisers Hyderabad in the IPL - and doing a superb job.


No - Gillespie who has been a big shot since his time with Yorkshire and just won BBL with Adelaide - and a split with Ponting who wants a t20 coach role but not the test team.

Ponting's t20 makeover went a whole lot better than Aus odi team this summer.
My money is on Dizzy as well. tho I would like big Tom too. Plenty of international experience unlike Diz.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:02 am

baggygreenmania wrote:
Paddles wrote:
No - Gillespie who has been a big shot since his time with Yorkshire and just won BBL with Adelaide - and a split with Ponting who wants a t20 coach role but not the test team.

Ponting's t20 makeover went a whole lot better than Aus odi team this summer.
My money is on Dizzy as well. tho I would like big Tom too. Plenty of international experience unlike Diz.


I don't think Tom necessarily wants the CA job. I of course do not not know the man nor his aspirations. But I do know that when he was in contention to replace Buchanaon in 2007, he pulled out. He also decided not to persue the Indian job years ago as not liking the annual touring which pays twice as much. He went and coached WA instead. That said, he did apply for India last year, though. His earlier SRH deal paid 3/4 what the CA job does now, and he has probably had a pay rise since and certainly in line for a new pay rise or a new club head hunting him there, and is just two months of the year, with half the games in one city to base himself from. Incredibly, Moody as a coach was earning signifcantly less than Vettori was at RCB. Do you think that is a sustainable proposition with SRH on top for a third year in a row and RCB failing for the second straight year?

On top of that - Moody coaches a PSL team, and is high demand for commentary stints outside Australia and England, on the international circuit like Bishop, and Mbwanga. Asian TV audiences like Tom for good reason.

Think Ponting, who just wants to coach Aus in T20. That will free him to keep his IPL coaching gig, and also not be travelling around all year. Safe to say Ponting has more financial freedom than Moody too.

The Australian coach (550k USD) is the second highest paying international coaching gig around, second to India (paying half of what India does).

But Tendulkar at Mumbai earns more. So too would Ponting possibly at Delhi. Dravid was. Vettori was earning damning close to it at RCB in 2017 (525k USD).

http://cricfit.com/all-you-want-to-know ... l-coaches/

http://dunyanews.tv/en/Cricket/410396-L ... al-cricket

So I'm not really sure that Moody would want the CA job. He is doing well enough without it. He is well in credit in India with his IPL coaching which after just one poor Indian performance could see him made Indian coach. That's the reality. And there is a world cup and 2 W2020's in the next 3 years.

And the worst thing about the Australian cricket coaching job, despite its 550k USD salary, the coach makes no final selection calls. Him and the captain have to go ask the selector/s on duty for any player that they want. Would you really want that as Tom Moody? Now Punter got around this with the T20 side this year, as he took the job knowing that Mark Waugh would be the sole selector on duty, and Mark Waugh said he was going to work with Punter to do as he wanted to sort out Australia's T20 side. And it worked well for Australia.

There will come a point, that some of the best qualified Australian coaches do not want CA selectors overruling them. And Moody while highly intelligent, is quite happy to challenge convention. By consistently challenging cricketing convention, it is how he has climbed through the ranks of coaches.

Australia has no established top order this summer, with S Marsh (35yo) and Khawaja the leaders of the batting, and is facing the real possibility of losing a test series at home to India this summer and struggling to beat Sri Lanka. If you were as big as Tom Moody is in Asia, would you want to be that coach, when you do not even have final selector say? And there are going to be huge selection calls to make about the entire top 6.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:28 am

There will come a point, that some of the best qualified Australian coaches do not want CA selectors overruling them. And Moody while highly intelligent, is quite happy to challenge convention. By consistently challenging cricketing convention, it is how he has climbed through the ranks of coaches.

This should definitely be part of the culture change about to hit Australian cricket. There has been much criticism of state bias selections for years. Our friend here Mike leads the way in this outcry and I am with him..tho not as vehemently as he. A player should be promoted or demoted purely on his ability and performance not on what color state cap he wears or who is felt to wield the most influence among the selection panel. Make the coach, captain and one other.. preferably a former player..the selection panel.

People like Pat Howard.. who are without a cricket background should not be part of Australian cricket officialdom in my view.

I agree with you that Ricky would make a great national coach. He has the respect of all players, is a great tactician, passionate and is a bloody nice bloke.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:03 am

baggygreenmania wrote:There will come a point, that some of the best qualified Australian coaches do not want CA selectors overruling them. And Moody while highly intelligent, is quite happy to challenge convention. By consistently challenging cricketing convention, it is how he has climbed through the ranks of coaches.

This should definitely be part of the culture change about to hit Australian cricket. There has been much criticism of state bias selections for years. Our friend here Mike leads the way in this outcry and I am with him..tho not as vehemently as he. A player should be promoted or demoted purely on his ability and performance not on what color state cap he wears or who is felt to wield the most influence among the selection panel. Make the coach, captain and one other.. preferably a former player..the selection panel.

People like Pat Howard.. who are without a cricket background should not be part of Australian cricket officialdom in my view.

I agree with you that Ricky would make a great national coach. He has the respect of all players, is a great tactician, passionate and is a bloody nice bloke.


The problem for Australia not having a culture change, is that you have won so much with the old culture. Why stray from the tried and true that has served Australian cricket so well? While there is nothing wrong with selectors selecting and coaches coaching per se, due to opportunities outside Australia, there are a generation of high profile coaches around used to selecting their teams and the Australian test team is now lacking so many established players that wholesale selections for spots are up for grabs. The entire top 6 is up for grabs.

But Australia has shown with T20 that sustained failure is unacceptable to Cricket Australia, and demonstrated an eagerness to change things there with Mark Waugh the sole official selector, and Ricky Ponting the coach and selector in fact.

Some coaches, those who only want to coach t20 welcome a split role, and those coahcing the longer formats often want to keep their interests involved to the shorter formats. So it is an interesting time in the realms of selection and coaching.

That said, Gillespie has fine coaching records in Yorkshire and in SA.

I believe that Langer is the worst option for CA despite his success with a strong WA team. And I think Gillespie and Ponting being involved where able is the better.

Further, I personally don't disagree with analysts or Pat Howard types not having played cricket being part of the officialdom. They just need to know how to do their jobs.

Mike Hesson has transformed NZ to a top 4 in all formats side consistently for 4 if not 5 years now. And he never played a single FC game. And NZ isn't a cricket power house like England, Australia, India and South Africa.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:53 am

Australian culture is Australian culture. The cricket team is just a reflection of it.
Australia was founded by convicts and poor people who left England looking for a better life.

The world has a problem with Australian culture, not the cricket team.

All this talk of culture change will only happen if a foreigner trains these Australian players to adopt a foreign culture. (Katto isn't advocating this, we saw what happened with Mickey Arthur)

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Tue May 01, 2018 2:59 am


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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Tue May 01, 2018 3:15 am

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/matthew ... 2018-04-30
Just watch the ton Renners hits for Sommerset. This is red ball cricket remember. The 22 yr old leftie now has the complete game. he can be dour and gritty plus explosive. He will give bowlers nitemares in coming years.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Wed May 02, 2018 12:01 am

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/alex-ca ... 2018-05-01 Alex Carey gets my vote. What other new faces will we see in OZ ODI side for England tour? If fit Chris Lynn is a must. Take a punt on the exciting pair Josh Philippe and Nick Winter. Chris Tremain should replace Cummins while Winter must be the leftie if Starc pulls out.. even if Starc plays for mine.
https://www.cricket.com.au/video/josh-p ... 2018-02-17. Just watch the timing of Josh Philippe in this Shield match.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Wed May 02, 2018 12:32 am

Josh Phillippe?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/c ... 24282.html

This looks less of a punt, and more just a reckless gamble if Carey got injured.

Nick Winter?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/c ... 01498.html

Wow. That's a very impressive FC debut season for Winter. Likes to swing and knows the Dukes ball well I see.

But I wouldn't send him. England uses a white Kookaburra ball for limited overs. And Winter hasn't earned a place in that squad off his Kookaburra white ball games in t20 or odi. No wonder he has only played 10 career games since debuting in 2014, and that includes playing for NZ in NZ.

Of course if England announce they'll use a white Dukes ball for the series, then it needs to be reconsidered. But even then, his lack of games and poor performances in the formats are still an issue. But he's looking good to tour England for Ashes 2019.

Where's NCN?
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Wed May 02, 2018 1:59 am

Not advocating Philippe as Carey's replacement tho have no doubt he could do the job. Kept for Warriors U23 side last season. I just posted a clip of Philippe in a domestic game last season paddles. Note the exquisite timing and how late he plays the moving ball... also was opening so againt the new ball. I have not seen a better cover driver since Greg Blewett...dare I say the great Greg Chappell.

Good time and place to blood Winter. He was almost unplayable on occasions against the swinging Dukes this summer. Snared something like 25/27 wkts from his first three games. I have tipped him for next years England Ashes. I had hoped he would have been picked up by an English county this winter.

NCN is injured yet again.. he James Pattinson, Jason Behrendorff.. perennial injured men of Australian cricket.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Wed May 02, 2018 4:21 am

baggygreenmania wrote:Not advocating Philippe as Carey's replacement tho have no doubt he could do the job. Kept for Warriors U23 side last season. I just posted a clip of Philippe in a domestic game last season paddles. Note the exquisite timing and how late he plays the moving ball... also was opening so againt the new ball. I have not seen a better cover driver since Greg Blewett...dare I say the great Greg Chappell.

Good time and place to blood Winter. He was almost unplayable on occasions against the swinging Dukes this summer. Snared something like 25/27 wkts from his first three games. I have tipped him for next years England Ashes. I had hoped he would have been picked up by an English county this winter.

NCN is injured yet again.. he James Pattinson, Jason Behrendorff.. perennial injured men of Australian cricket.


Baggers, I repeat, England uses a white kookaburra ball for limited overs. If so, its an awful time and place to blood Winter in odi's against an aggressive English batting order at home when his only success at domestic is with a Dukes ball, in first class cricket.

Unless England announces a Duke ball for the series, I wouldn't take him. He's played 6 list A games, and this was the last of them.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8626 ... d-2017-18/

He didn't even play for a BBL team last summer.

The England ODI pitches will be flat and high scoring. They will back their batting line up to beat yours. They would have done this even if Aus still had Smith and Warner.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Wed May 02, 2018 5:30 am

Baggers, I repeat, England uses a white kookaburra ball for limited overs. If so, its an awful time and place to blood Winter in odi's against an aggressive English batting order at home when his only success at domestic is with a Dukes ball, in first class cricket.

Prob correct paddles. He does need blooding tho if he is to be considered for Ashes 2019. There are two tests against Pakistan in Septemeber think it is. This is wishful thinking on my part as the selectors may not even have him on its radar. But they sure as hell should. A 'horses for courses' policy should be used for England. May avoid embarrassing defeats everytime we tour there.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Wed May 02, 2018 5:37 am

The England ODI pitches will be flat and high scoring. They will back their batting line up to beat yours. They would have done this even if Aus still had Smith and Warner.

Oz smacked the Poms bums last time we met in an ODI series. So they can not afford to get too cocky by thinking they can outbat us on belters. Will this impel them to prepare seaming decks instead as that is the type of tracks where we most struggle. If this is the case..the conditions would then suit the likes of a Nick Winter.
Did you take a look at that Philippe clip Paddles?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Wed May 02, 2018 6:04 am

baggygreenmania wrote:The England ODI pitches will be flat and high scoring. They will back their batting line up to beat yours. They would have done this even if Aus still had Smith and Warner.

Oz smacked the Poms bums last time we met in an ODI series. So they can not afford to get too cocky by thinking they can outbat us on belters.


They just thrashed you 4-1 on roads in Australia. Aus wasn't able to defend 300 plus. And England was without Stokes then!

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1088 ... z-2017-18/

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1088 ... z-2017-18/

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1088 ... z-2017-18/

baggygreenmania wrote:Will this impel them to prepare seaming decks instead as that is the type of tracks where we most struggle. If this is the case..the conditions would then suit the likes of a Nick Winter.
Did you take a look at that Philippe clip Paddles?


No - they will serve you roads and bat with Woakes at 8.

They did the same to beat SA last year at home.

England ODI cricket is based on NZC BMac cricket. Except, they have a better lower middle order than NZ. Much better.

And they keep the pitches flat for high scoring matches to entertain the crowds.

Hales/Roy with Bairstow kick off, then Root, then Morgan, Stokes at 5, Buttler at 6, Ali at 7, Woakes at 8, Willey at 9, Khan at 10.

They just keep striking. And have 6 frontline bowling options for the roads with Stokes, Khan, Ali, Woakes, Willey and Plunkett. Wood in reserve rotates for the seamers.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Wed May 02, 2018 6:50 am

Must have been thinking of some other time then.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Wed May 02, 2018 7:47 am

baggygreenmania wrote:Must have been thinking of some other time then.


No worries. It takes some time given how ordinary England has been at limited overs between 1992 and 2015 to think of them as an ODI powerhouse that they now are.

They're only the second team after Safrica to come to NZ and beat NZ in their last odi series here in the past 5 or so years. Admittedly both went 3-2. But beating Australia in Australia, and in form NZ in NZ, certainly means England has made impressive leaps forward as an ODI nation.

Their approach to odi cricket lacks subtletly. It is played how I think it should be played. Their weakness is Roy/Hales, but if they come off, that's the game won. Root is very consistent. Morgan is softer than Root, but not the worst, then Stokes, Buttler, Ali and Woakes take turns in gertting that valuable 50+ score to bring the innings home.

They took the approach from NZ of the last World Cup, but with their all rounder strength and Buttler's superior skill, have probably improved upon it even if the bowling stength is weaker at the top than NZ's due to Boult, and lacking the wilier spinner NZ has in Santner (with Sodhi and Astle as a possible support from time to time). That said, Plunkett is in form right now in the IPL, and Willey is a luxury that England do not need as he rarely bowls out, but is just there to see if there's any movement early on plus he bats a bit.

If Aus beats them, it will be some impressive cricket.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Wed May 02, 2018 11:36 am

baggygreenmania wrote:Not advocating Philippe as Carey's replacement tho have no doubt he could do the job. Kept for Warriors U23 side last season. I just posted a clip of Philippe in a domestic game last season paddles. Note the exquisite timing and how late he plays the moving ball... also was opening so againt the new ball. I have not seen a better cover driver since Greg Blewett...dare I say the great Greg Chappell.

Good time and place to blood Winter. He was almost unplayable on occasions against the swinging Dukes this summer. Snared something like 25/27 wkts from his first three games. I have tipped him for next years England Ashes. I had hoped he would have been picked up by an English county this winter.

NCN is injured yet again.. he James Pattinson, Jason Behrendorff.. perennial injured men of Australian cricket.


never thought of Blewie as a memorable cover driver

he probably had the best pull shot I've ever seen though

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu May 03, 2018 4:55 am

Langer appointed head coach of CA XI

CA cant do anything right

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu May 03, 2018 5:38 am

Katto wrote:
baggygreenmania wrote:Not advocating Philippe as Carey's replacement tho have no doubt he could do the job. Kept for Warriors U23 side last season. I just posted a clip of Philippe in a domestic game last season paddles. Note the exquisite timing and how late he plays the moving ball... also was opening so againt the new ball. I have not seen a better cover driver since Greg Blewett...dare I say the great Greg Chappell.

Good time and place to blood Winter. He was almost unplayable on occasions against the swinging Dukes this summer. Snared something like 25/27 wkts from his first three games. I have tipped him for next years England Ashes. I had hoped he would have been picked up by an English county this winter.

NCN is injured yet again.. he James Pattinson, Jason Behrendorff.. perennial injured men of Australian cricket.


never thought of Blewie as a memorable cover driver

he probably had the best pull shot I've ever seen though
Blewie was a terrific driver.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu May 03, 2018 5:40 am

Katto wrote:Langer appointed head coach of CA XI

CA cant do anything right
Watcha mean? I wonder what swayed his mind as of two weeks ago he was far from decided.. in fact was closer to declining the honor if anything. Coach of all three formats too. Wasnt Ponting almost certain for the T20 role?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu May 03, 2018 5:53 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex-rBOIH27o Plenty of examples of Blewies driving and pulling in this 95 clip against the Poms.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu May 03, 2018 5:56 am

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/nsw-new ... 2018-05-03 A more youthful Blues squad. This is more like it selectors.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu May 03, 2018 6:06 am

NSW Blues contracted players for 2018-19: Mitchell Starc (CA), Pat Cummins (CA), Josh Hazlewood (CA), Nathan Lyon (CA). Ryan Gibson, Moises Henriques, Dan Hughes, Nick Larkin, Kurtis Patterson, Jason Sangha, Param Uppal, Peter Nevill, Dan Fallin, Arjun Nair, Steve O’Keefe, Will Somerville, Sean Abbott, Harry Conway, Trent Copeland, Ben Dwarshius, Mickey Edwards, Liam Hatcher, Charlie Stobo, Henry Thornton. Rookies: Jack Edwards, Jordan Gauci, Ryan Hackney, Ryan Hadley, Baxter Holt, Chad Sammut.

As mooted Sandhu and Maddinson are gone..Henriques and Nick Larkin lucky not to join them. Nevill probably only survived as he is the skipper. Good to see young quicks Henry Thornton and Mickey Edwards get full contracts, along with Dan Fallins and Param Uppal.. The biggest shock is the ommision of Blues reserve keeper Jay Lenton. Surely one of the other states will pick up this talented keeper/batsman. Jason Sangha who is still 18, is a major surprise. Obviously selectors think he is ready.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu May 03, 2018 8:42 am

baggygreenmania wrote:
Katto wrote:Langer appointed head coach of CA XI

CA cant do anything right
Watcha mean? I wonder what swayed his mind as of two weeks ago he was far from decided.. in fact was closer to declining the honor if anything. Coach of all three formats too. Wasnt Ponting almost certain for the T20 role?


No Langer wanted all 3 roles.

Ponting only wanted t20.

So it had to be Gillespie (and possibly Punter) or Langer.

I would have gone with Gillespie and Punter over Langer.

Right now there are three excellent Aussie coaches in high demand globally; Gillespie, Punter and Moody, of which the last two are proven to be plotting strategic analysts of cricket, and the first has worked his way up from the bottom, loved by his players and won a lot in Eng and Aus.

Instead Cric Aus went with Langer.

I get where Katto is coming from.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Fri May 04, 2018 1:30 am

Langer is said to have turned round West Australian cricket since his tenure began. To listen to him speak yesterday I can see why. To be brutally honest tho the West Aussie structure is hardly fractured like the current Aussie one.. One scribe said of Langer's task as akin to "shuffling the deck chairs". Langer was a gritty little batsman. I expect him to apply the same grit to his coaching.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Fri May 04, 2018 3:20 am

how many shields have they won under Langer?

I'm not liking anything I'm hearing from him so far. He was a tough batsman but he's always sounded like a dumb c**t to me.

wtf is he on about 'mateship' and 'the line'...

FM what kind of bubble does this dope live in

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Fri May 04, 2018 6:01 am

baggygreenmania wrote:Langer is said to have turned round West Australian cricket since his tenure began. To listen to him speak yesterday I can see why. To be brutally honest tho the West Aussie structure is hardly fractured like the current Aussie one.. One scribe said of Langer's task as akin to "shuffling the deck chairs". Langer was a gritty little batsman. I expect him to apply the same grit to his coaching.


Grit is great if he gets better performances out of the players, but the head coach isn't there to "coach" highly paid professional sportsmen at elite levels. He is not there at elite level to foster a bond between the players. He is not there to give motivational speeches.

He is there to strategise and see plans executed more than simply man manage.


Personally, and I am limited to a NZC example because that is what I know best. There are coaches who man manage like Shane Jurgonsan, talk about mateship and team play, and they don't get the best results, even if they're popular at the BBQ. There are coaches like Dimitri Mascheranus, who talk of skills, that don't get the results. You have to work with what within limitations the players can do, not what the ideal is. Then there are coaches likes Hesson, Bond and Mills - that do their homework on the opposition and come up with plans for the players to go out and execute within their limitations. And they do get results.

Bond had the bowlers bowling faster in the nets as a taskmaster (and this carried into games), swinging the ball more (he is technically adept) and studied the opposition batsman's weaknesses (and this matters most). He was so damn successful, he's now a highly sought after coach worldwide and too expensive for NZC. Bond is the ideal - he is a man manager in getting the best, he is technically profecient to improve players, but most importantly, he did his homework on the opposition and strategised. Many NZC bowlers has been lost without him (bar a brief period of Mills). Bond was so good, even almost made McClenaghan look like a good intl level bowler for a while.

Mills, again studied the opposing batsmen. He will go on air during a game and say - our plan A this game is deliberately to bowl to the BATSMAN'S STRENGTHS, but with a stacked field. Plan B may be the bowler's strength, Plan C may be to defend. He has plans, gives them to the players in order to execute for each opposition player in the team, is prepared to say what they are, and believe it or not - his plans work. Which should be no surprise because as a very limited red ball bowler, he took a stack of limited overs wickets at a good E/R. He had and still has more smarts than talent.

Hesson, again, has plans for the game and the team structure. And he is confident enough to tell the media and the public what they are. Again, he has had more success than most NZC coaches. It is a shame that if he could man manage better, and instill more discipline NZC would have Jesse Ryder and be enjoying its best middle order in its history of cricket! But what Hesson lacks, he makes up for elsewhere.

I don't want an elite coach that man manages first and foremost. Elite professional sportsmen shouldn't mostly need all that much. Technical coaches are support coaches, not primary. I want a coach that studies the game of cricket, examines the opposition, knows his own team well, and thus gives the players a strategy to execute and gets results within their own limitations. As a bonus, I want a coach who sees where a player can improve, and sets out the tools (even if specialists coming in) to implement the improvements. The captain's job is to know when to try the next plan, or continue with the current and what modifications to make to it.

In my experience, the best coaches have plans, and they are so confident in the success of these plans, that they will tell the media and fans what they are. The ones who use cliches and avoid mentioning specific plans, but talk of camaraderie and enjoying the game, they fail to deliver the best results in excess of expectations and often deliver beneath those.

So Langer, what is your plan to beat India at home next year without Smith and Warner's runs? What is your plan to win the World Cup? And what is your plan to win the WorldT20 in Australia in 2020? Or do you just want eleven players without sandpaper in their pants but who sledge together happily and know where the line is?

Because I am damn sure that Punter and Moody would have plans. And would favour Gillespie having plans over not having them, even if he's too humble for his own good.

But like Katto, I am not sold on Langer's smarts just yet. Punter and Moody - well I hang on their every word about cricket. They place themselves in the fielding captain or batsman's head at any moment. They're damn smart cricketing minds, who not only understand how to strategise (including own player limitations), but oversee its successful implementation. And they're completely malleable to any situation. That is coaching at the elite level.

Give 'em earphones and a clipbaord and send them to the NRL. They'll suss it out real smart.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Tue May 08, 2018 1:09 am

ODI squad: Tim Paine (c), Aaron Finch (vc), Ashton Agar, Alex Carey, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Nathan Lyon, Glenn Maxwell, Shaun Marsh, Jhye Richardson, Kane Richardson, D’Arcy Short, Billy Stanlake, Marcus Stoinis, Andrew Tye

T20 squad: Aaron Finch (c), Alex Carey (vc), Ashton Agar, Travis Head, Nic Maddinson, Glenn Maxwell, Jhye Richardson, Kane Richardson, D’Arcy Short, Billy Stanlake, Marcus Stoinis, Mitchell Swepson, Andrew Tye, Jack Wildermuth.

Several surprise selections no bigger than Nathan Lyon and Nic Maddinson. No Chris Lynn? Do my eyes deceive me.. Maddinson has just lost his state contract? Bewildering. Lyons ODI record is moderate at best. Presumedly his inclusion is only as an audition for next years Ashes. Jack Wildermuth is a huge call.. but warranted. Seems he has jumped Hilton Cartwright as the bits and pieces player. Pleased to see leggie Mitchell Swepson finally selected for a national side. I am particularly heartened by the inclusions of the two Richardsons. Baffled tho how Billy Stanlake makes both sides. Shaun Marsh chosen as the middle order rock. Would have preferred George Bailey who has a superior ODI record. Guess old father time is catching up with you "gorgeous" George.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Tue May 08, 2018 1:17 am

That is all so complex paddles. The bottom line is whatever Langer did for West Aussie cricket..it is a winning formula. Three of last four BBL titles with Perth Scorchers and two Shield finalists with Western Warriors certainly attests to his success at the helm. He now needs to apply same processes with the national side. I was often of the impression Lehmann was too pally with his players. Langer kicks bum where necessary to get best out of his players. Above all he lets them play their own game and does not try to remould the finished product. As you say they are elite sportsmen.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Tue May 08, 2018 5:52 am

baggygreenmania wrote:That is all so complex paddles. The bottom line is whatever Langer did for West Aussie cricket..it is a winning formula. Three of last four BBL titles with Perth Scorchers and two Shield finalists with Western Warriors certainly attests to his success at the helm. He now needs to apply same processes with the national side. I was often of the impression Lehmann was too pally with his players. Langer kicks bum where necessary to get best out of his players. Above all he lets them play their own game and does not try to remould the finished product. As you say they are elite sportsmen.


We all know cricket is as complex or as simple as the situation demands for a winning strategy.

It is pretty easy to dominate and win any sport with the best players. But when the teams are closer in available talent, or a weaker team wanting to beat a stronger team, strategy matters.

Now I don't know about you, but Aus has been losing in England since 2001, lost away to India, Pakistan and SL last and drew in Bangladesh. Lost at home and away to SA, and lost an ODI series at home to England last. So lets just say that Australian victories are no longer almost certain these days.

And now they have a year without Smith and Warner.

If it were my team, I'd want a strategic coach who tells the players how to play together to a plan or preferably plans, and not just some man management performance babble of "do your best, and do it for ya mates, or I'll kick your butt". I want a coach picking the right team of eleven, and telling the players what to do and how to win. No need to remould the players, maybe point out some minor tweaks, but surely he picks the players and strategies to implement based on their strengths more than their weaknesses.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Tue May 08, 2018 6:42 am

I agree with you about needing a strategic coach. Australia's record playing away from home is deplorable.. specially in England and India. The coach sets out a blueprint. It is up to the players to follow that blueprint. Can Langer turn round our fortunes playing away. Does he have the personnel to do that? Only time will tell. His track record with Western Australia is impressive. So lets give the bloke a chance before bagging him as the wrong man for the job.

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Paine ( ODI) & Finch (T20i) Captains Of Aus In England

Postby Tinsel » Tue May 08, 2018 8:46 am

http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/10 ... n-in-t20is

Katto
I wonder why Carey is vice captain of T20i team of Aus in England when you have Maxi in the team
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Tue May 08, 2018 10:19 am

BBL success wasn't down to Langer but the Perth franchise fielding a state team = unfair advantage

running second in the shield of 6 teams is nothing to crow about

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Re: Paine ( ODI) & Finch (T20i) Captains Of Aus In England

Postby baggygreenmania » Tue May 08, 2018 10:21 am

Maxwell is there on sufferance.. How has he proven himself in any format.. and you want him as skipper. No way Jose. Carey is the future. Paine (ODI) and Finch (T20) are obvious choices as skippers. Who will wear the gloves tho? I would like to see Carey with Paine used soley as a batsman.
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Re: Paine ( ODI) & Finch (T20i) Captains Of Aus In England

Postby baggygreenmania » Tue May 08, 2018 10:26 am

Tinsel wrote:http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/101924/tim-paine-named-captain-for-england-cricket-odis-aaron-finch-to-captain-in-t20is

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I wonder why Carey is vice captain of T20i team of Aus in England when you have Maxi in the team
Have already made my comments on the Baggy Green site. How the heck has Nic Maddinson and Nathan Lyon warranted a ODI call up? Bewildering. Maddinson has just been dumped from his state contract. Why no Joe Burns, Matt Rensaw or Chris Lynn is what parochial Mike will be musing. I have to agree 100%. Is Lynny already being considered a liability?