BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:43 am

Lynn is an entertainer and a half.

If Maxwell is the Big Show - Lynn's on his way to being a Bigger Show.

Handscombe out for 12 in Aus 2nd innings.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:51 am

Double century for Mighty Joe. Last game he put into perspective M Marsh's innings, who failed in the 2nd innings scoring only 11, whereas Joe scored 184 for the match showing consistency. Now he has put into perspective Head and Carey's innings very ably supported by Jimmy Peirson, approaching his 100, who CA in conjunction with Qld cricket have announced they have put their eggs in one basket with regards to the next keeper for Australia. Probably not the right thing to do by CA but they have probably realized now the best keepers come from Qld, and it takes someone special like Rod Marsh and Adam Gilchrist to prevent that from happening, forget the useless keepers that have represented NSW. Joe Burns could have put his hand up for the No 3 position for Australia. That would be a good thing for Australia to have the best batsman in Australia batting at 3 and the 2nd best in S Smith batting at 4. Plus with his ability as an opener it will put pressure on that useless David "Chook with his head cut off" Warner and maybe ease the pressure on Bancroft.
I must apologise to Qld cricket, I for one will admit when I am wrong, I thought they would be 5th maybe 4th this season. And I am sure I am not alone when may self-proclaimed "Experts" think without Khawaja, Qld will struggle. I for one consider myself in the foolish department I wonder how many others are prepared to do so? But they could do with a decent bowling attack which is unusual for Qld but they must be still developing.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:56 am

I turn off the sound when Waugh comes on. Totally agree about SOK. Have been saying for years that he is a fine domestic bowler but not an international class one. If Joe keeps churning out runs the way he is this season the selectors will have to take note. Same with Mitch Marsh who is thriving with the captaincy.. almost 400 runs @42.. plus he is back bowling. Reckon that absurb decision by us to not enforce the follow on was borne from the fact that the knobheads running CA were worried about bowler burnout.
Handscombs days are numbered if he does not change his strange technique. Yes the kid Renshaw can not buy a run this year.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:00 am

Joe Burns could have put his hand up for the No 3 position for Australia. That would be a good thing for Australia to have the best batsman in Australia batting at 3.
Settle down Mike. Burns the best batsman in Australia? The most inform alongside Maxwell.. yes.The reason Burns was dropped in the first place was his inability to cope with the moving ball. Bat him in at #3 and if an early wicket falls he could well be facing the new ball. I know who I would prefer out of he and Smith at #3. Joe takes Handscombs place for mine.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:50 am

The useless Blues look like losing by an innings in Hobart. Jackson Bird is in some form 4 games 25 @16. One of the main reasons why the Tigers have turned around their season. The Blues must now make changes for the second half of the season. At least one new batsman, Sangha or Gibson for Maddinson, plus a pace bowler. Would also like to see Arjun Nair come in for SOK.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:09 am

baggygreenmania wrote:Joe Burns could have put his hand up for the No 3 position for Australia. That would be a good thing for Australia to have the best batsman in Australia batting at 3.
Settle down Mike. Burns the best batsman in Australia? The most inform alongside Maxwell.. yes.The reason Burns was dropped in the first place was his inability to cope with the moving ball. Bat him in at #3 and if an early wicket falls he could well be facing the new ball. I know who I would prefer out of he and Smith at #3. Joe takes Handscombs place for mine.


I trapped you again Baggers, you're too easy. But I could argue when Smith was dropped he only averaged 25, compared to Burns 42. Then Joe got 1 test to prove himself then dropped again, whereas S Smith when he was given a recall he only averaged 38 but was given 12 tests to prove himself. I could argue that Joe had an average of 50 after 17 test innings with nearly 850 runs compared to Smith who took 27 innings to score 850 runs, or say David Warner who took 23 innings to achieve that 850 mark. But that would bring up the old argument that some batsmen are very privileged being born South of the Qld/NSW border and are given far more opportunities to entrench themselves in the Australian side, even if they were born of English parents and could have played for England, but at least Steve renounced his English ties. Joe is a true Blue Aussie, who lets nothing affect his play he just keeps churning out the runs, that's all he can do. Quite a few recent selections could learn a thing or two from Joe. You would never see Joe have a little cry and need time away from the game to sulk. But I say all this Baggers tongue in cheek, you really must learn when I'm kidding around, but it does make you think, doesn't it.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:30 am

Bosisto and Wells kept their wickets intact to ensure a draw against the Bushies. As expected the Tigers belted the Blues by 10 wickets while the Bulls held on for a draw against the Redbacks up in Cairns. Good tussle between Burns and Head for MOM there.. Joe with a lazy 202# in first innings.. Travis 139 & 65.
Last edited by baggygreenmania on Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:34 am

Some interesting stats at the half way stage of the 2017 Shield. Glenn Maxwell (590) leads the batting stakes from Callum Ferguson (541) and Joe Burns (514). Jackson Bird is the leading bowler with 25 @16 from Chris Tremain (22) and Scott Boland (21).

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby raja » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:05 am

Is Jackson Bird still in the reckoning for a Test return? Maybe not in the Ashes (unless there's an injury, hope not!), but otherwise?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:30 am

raja wrote:Is Jackson Bird still in the reckoning for a Test return? Maybe not in the Ashes (unless there's an injury, hope not!), but otherwise?


Yeah he's on the selectors radar with Sayers (and Pattinson post-injury).
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:39 am

Sad that NCN is injured.
Imagine the 4 man pace attack at the WACA with him.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Mick180461 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:39 am

raja wrote:Is Jackson Bird still in the reckoning for a Test return? Maybe not in the Ashes (unless there's an injury, hope not!), but otherwise?

He is the 12th man for Australia, any of the 3 get injured and he will come in so yes he is definitely in the running.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Mick180461 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:49 am

Mitch Marsh has been added to the Aussie 13 man squad replacing Chad Sayers. Could see him come in for Handscomb who has become a walking wkt and add some depth to the bowling. At least he is being picked on some form for the 1st time ever with 402 runs@44.66

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:53 am

I'm sure Mark Waugh must be reading my posts

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:22 pm

Mick180461 wrote:Mitch Marsh has been added to the Aussie 13 man squad replacing Chad Sayers. Could see him come in for Handscomb who has become a walking wkt and add some depth to the bowling. At least he is being picked on some form for the 1st time ever with 402 runs@44.66

You did not agree with me the other day Mick when I said Handscomb was a walking wicket and should go until he has fixed his game. Needs some time in Shield cricket to work out his strange techique. As for the retention of Mitch Marsh I said the same thing the other day in reply to Mike. Gotta feel for Chadd Sayers. "Mr So Close To A Baggy Green Man"

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:35 pm

I trapped you again Baggers, you're too easy. No you didnt Mike ha ha. You are talking past tense about Smith. The man is on a diffrent stratosphere since those days. I do have to question certain aspects of his captaincy tho. He had an absolute shocker this test. Joe should get another crack at the baggy green that is for sure. But who will he replace now Mitch Marsh has been returned to bolster our pace attack. CA hieracy has all but admitted it got the decision wrong to not enforce the follow on due to a fear of bowler burnout for remainder of the series. Why else bring Marsh back. Do we need a fifth bowler. Cummo, Starc and Haze seemed to handle things fine on their own. That is not to say Mitch does not deserve a recall after his excellent season so far with the bat and Warriors captaincy. As Mick points out his figures dont lie-very impressive.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:52 am

Some home truths coming out about the no enforcment of follow on saga. Smith has admitted he did get it wrong..in a round about way. David Saker is spitting chips over Smith not consulting either he or his bowlers over the decision.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:43 am

baggygreenmania wrote:Some home truths coming out about the no enforcment of follow on saga. Smith has admitted he did get it wrong..in a round about way. David Saker is spitting chips over Smith not consulting either he or his bowlers over the decision.


Baggers, this is all media BS. There is nothing to the story, but they need to write something. What are they going to write "England are S**t", we know that! Cook, Anderson and Broad have been useless in Australia. I would rather watch Kane Williamson, than Joe Root. I know, they go on about 2010/11 but look at the batting line up Katich, Watson, Hughes (when he played for NSW), Clarke, Khawaja (when he play for NSW), Smith, Haddin, poor M Hussey was the odd man out. It was a state batting line up. It killed poor Ponting's captaincy career and put Michael "Captain in waiting" Clarke in charge and gave him an official selector's cap which really stuffed things up (Worst era ever then). The bowlers Hilfenhaus and Siddle led the attack, and the one game they won had Harris and Johnson who took 18 wickets combined in the match, yes that is right, both took 9 wickets each, when was the last time the current pace attack did that in 1 test....Never. Since then England are useless, at least when we go to England we are competitive.

For the England team, Hayden was right, they are "rabble". I never thought I would see a lazier cricketer than M Waugh, though Khawaja comes close, but the new crown belongs to Stoneman. Vince wouldn't make a shield team and his international record supports that at an average of 20. Malan is not much better with an average of 25, but he showed more courage on the 4th night. Ali is a typical all-rounder, not brilliant at either. Bairstow does have talent. Overton and Woakes are more in the all-rounder category as I doubt they would make the side on bowling alone.

But this is a sign of the times. Australia isn't much better. When we were hammered by Sri Lanka, we forget Sri Lanka had lost Jayawardene, Sangakkara, Samaraweera, they were re-building and we lost 3-0. Only Drew with Bangladesh, that was embarrassing. All teams currently are re-building India (we lost to the too recently), South Africa (they beat us too without Kallis, AB de Villiers and Steyn played 1 game), have all lost major players in recent years. If the best England have are Root Cook, Anderson and Broad they are in trouble. (Note to Self: Buy Shares in Walking Frames in England) But for Australia we have been re-building for 7 years now but we keep losing some quality players along the way. Since Dec 17-20, 2014 we are at a 50% win record, which is not good for a cricket proud nation, considering 50% of games are played at home. I hate to say it Test cricket is slowly dying, though some refuse to accept it. This would be the lowest period of quality cricketers throughout the world that I can remember, and we rank No 5. The current Australian side is poor in comparison to past sides, and would be on par with the early to mid 80's side, but at least that was over in 1987 when we won the World Cup and look at the legends in that side.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby BritBulldog » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:56 am

MikeR68, all I can say is well done. That sums up test level cricket. I've been saying for years England has overrated cricketers that are hopeless away from home. i believe we have better cricketers than what we put up, our selectors chose people who they think may be good. It too Broad and Anderson took 300 mark in more tests than any other bowler, give any player at county cricket tat number of tests they take wickets don't mean their good just knew right people, like his father Chris. My mates from Australia over here were cheering England in 2011 Ashes because of what you said about the australian test team even back than. I never knew that Johnson and Harris were dangerous even back then I thought it was just 2013. I agree test cricket is at an all time low, no big players like the past i cant think of any team that hasnt lost big players recently maybe New Zaeland or Pakistan. Once again well done nice to see a aussie call it as it is
I might grab those shares you talk about
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:58 am

You make it sound like Aussie cicket and world cricket for that matter is on its last legs Mike. Where is the optimism. Australia will always have a strong cricket side as we have a huge talent pool from which to choose between either rugby league or cricket as a career. We also always field a strong RL national side. Unless I heard wrongly cricket is currently our most popular sport by a long way. So the talent pool will remain healthy and lead us to continue to turn out quality cricketers. These days there are more incentives for young talented cricketers. Kids dont have to wait on the sidelines anymore after showing promise at youth nationals level. They are now being noticed and fast tracked via the excellent CA Pathways Program. A CAX1 side is now chosen in our mens and (not sure about women) national youth tournaments plus they get to strut their stuff against touring teams.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 am

Baggers I pay good money to see a competitive sides take on the Aussies. It's one thing to have optimism but do we want to be like the All Blacks especially at home. This series is going to be 5-0 if weather doesn't play a part. It's boring where you can walk away and come back later and it is as you expected. I'm starting to think that teams touring here do it as an obligation rather than a competition. The problem is we are being ripped off by the other world teams. The England side is 2nd rate (Thanks Bulldog for your support) and the other world teams don't compete well here. But at least we try to be competitive when we play OS and that gives a true rating of our position and currently we are 5th, but we don't ask the questions because we dominate at home and that doesn't allow us to make a more competitive team no matter where we play.
e.g.
Player 1
won match 19 match 77 wickets average 26.66
lost match 15 match 70 wickets average 27.04
drawn match 4 matches 15 wickets average 34.40

Player 2
won match 17 matches 81 wickets average 21.14
lost match 11matches 36 wickets average 28.75
drawn match 5 matches 8 wickets average 62.37

Would you say that player 1 is a consistent performer regardless of whether there is a win, draw or a loss and is a better selection because he always gives his best performance or Player 2 because he gives a better performance when we win but when he performs below par 50% of the time his performance may cost the match or at best draw. Personally I want to see more Player 1's even though Player 2 has a superb record when you win but if you only win 50% of the time, you end up 5th on the ladder. And that's the problem when you win 5-0 we don't ask the questions. And currently there is not much in world cricket to prevent these whitewashes but we lose badly OS, thus OS Countries are not getting the best we can offer. Thus Test Cricket suffers.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:33 am

The problem is we are being ripped off by the other world teams. The England side is 2nd rate (Thanks Bulldog for your support) and the other world teams don't compete well here.


England just beat Safrica at home, something Aussie didn't do last year. While not a particularly famous batting line up just yet, they're far from second rate.

The issue is the home pitches.

Australia can either green up the decks a bit more and or use a duke ball, and run the risk of losing a few games to England (and hopefully NZ) as well as give the Asian bowlers more of a chance than they have at present in Aus, which will help put on a spectacle of cricket and prepare its team to win in England far better.

Or it can continue with the status quo, and keep them flat and just leave the Asian, English and NZ attacks (pre Wagner) in the past with lil' hope and the most interesting series will be every few years when Safrica arrive for 3 tests only.

But - if you green the pitches up and use a duke ball, there will be a higher risk of upsets.

While India prepares it homes pitches to significantly suit itself, I don't blame Australia for also doing likewise. What I love most is when Bangladesh or Sri Lanka tour and India puts up faster seam friendlier pitches. I find that quite amusing. You don't see those tracks when Eng, SA, Aus or NZ tour India. Same thing has happened with KKR in the IPL, used to be a slow, spin heavy, tired pitch until this year when they bought a stack of seamers, suddenly it was green and fast, with good carry even for home IPL games.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:48 am

I don't see Australian curators preparing pitches to suit Australia, I see them preparing them the way they always have within the limitations of drop in wickets. Its a natural phenomenon that Australian pitches are bouncy.

I do see England, India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan specifically preparing pitches to suit the home team. England have only caught on in the last decade.
Its no accident that South Africa and Australia trade away wins as they each have similar home conditions and similar strengths and weaknesses.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby bolero » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:47 am

About pitches, there has always been a clamour in India for more seam friendly pitches. Traditionally, India had a couple of pitches which was extremely seam friendly eg Mohali . But Mohali which was over the years considered a fast bowlers paradise has turned into a flat deck much the way of WACA Perth.

Now with Saurav Ganguly as head of CAB (Cricket Association of Bengal) after Dalmiya's demise, we had a bouncy track at Eden Gardens for the India - Sri Lanka match which took everyone by surprise (also there was heavy rain and covers for most of day 1 and 2). Excepting Cheteshwara Pujara , none of the Indian batsmen were able to negotiate the pace, bounce and movement when pitch was at its most juiciest. Ganguly is an advocate for fast, seam friendly pitches.Pitch was doing something on day 5 too when the likes of Shami were storming in and bowling fast. SL got out of jail with bad light at 75-7 on day 5.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:50 am

Katto wrote:I don't see Australian curators preparing pitches to suit Australia, I see them preparing them the way they always have within the limitations of drop in wickets. Its a natural phenomenon that Australian pitches are bouncy.

I do see England, India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan specifically preparing pitches to suit the home team. England have only caught on in the last decade.
Its no accident that South Africa and Australia trade away wins as they each have similar home conditions and similar strengths and weaknesses.


Katto, it is my understanding that back in the Bradman era pre Miller and Lindwall - Aus pitches used to spin far more than Englands. Were Tiger and Grimmett were just the benefactors or the cause of this?

So lets goto the covered pitch era;

Aus could leave grass on the wicket like they did at Adelaide (6 to 8mm) for pinkies from 2015 , or more than. They choose not too. Thats a fact.

Aus could use a Duke ball over the Kookaburra. Thats a fact.
Last edited by Paddles on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:56 am

bolero wrote:About pitches, there has always been a clamour in India for more seam friendly pitches. Traditionally, India had a couple of pitches which was extremely seam friendly eg Mohali . But Mohali which was over the years considered a fast bowlers paradise has turned into a flat deck much the way of WACA Perth.

Now with Saurav Ganguly as head of CAB (Cricket Association of Bengal) after Dalmiya's demise, we had a bouncy track at Eden Gardens for the India - Sri Lanka match which took everyone by surprise (also there was heavy rain and covers for most of day 1 and 2). Excepting Cheteshwara Pujara , none of the Indian batsmen were able to negotiate the pace, bounce and movement when pitch was at its most juiciest. Ganguly is an advocate for fast, seam friendly pitches.Pitch was doing something on day 5 too when the likes of Shami were storming in and bowling fast. SL got out of jail with bad light at 75-7 on day 5.


Kohli said after first or second test with SL that he had asked for seamer wickets supposedly to prepare for SA series. It was on tv and cricinfo would have likely recorded it.

Team India oft get the pitches prepared that they think they want. Its no secret.* And I don't claim that they started it neither.

The rest of the world can either follow suit or complain.

*but was hilarious at Wt20 when groundsman told NZ it wasn't much of a turner. NZ ignoring him played 3 spinners and it was turning square after a handful of overs.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby bolero » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:09 am

Yes, Paddles, Kohli had asked for seamer friendly wickets for the series. He is on record saying that. Except for 1st test, he didnt get what he wanted.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:12 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:I don't see Australian curators preparing pitches to suit Australia, I see them preparing them the way they always have within the limitations of drop in wickets. Its a natural phenomenon that Australian pitches are bouncy.

I do see England, India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan specifically preparing pitches to suit the home team. England have only caught on in the last decade.
Its no accident that South Africa and Australia trade away wins as they each have similar home conditions and similar strengths and weaknesses.


Katto, it is my understanding that back in the Bradman era pre Miller and Lindwall - Aus pitches used to spin far more than Englands. Were Tiger and Grimmett were just the benefactors or the cause of this?

So lets goto the covered pitch era;

Aus could leave grass on the wicket like they did at Adelaide (6 to 8mm) for pinkies from 2015 , or more than. They choose not too. Thats a fact.

Aus could use a Duke ball over the Kookaburra. Thats a fact.


you answered your own question :roll:

"goto" is not a word unless you speak C++

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:16 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Katto, it is my understanding that back in the Bradman era pre Miller and Lindwall - Aus pitches used to spin far more than Englands. Were Tiger and Grimmett were just the benefactors or the cause of this?

So lets goto the covered pitch era;

Aus could leave grass on the wicket like they did at Adelaide (6 to 8mm) for pinkies from 2015 , or more than. They choose not too. Thats a fact.

Aus could use a Duke ball over the Kookaburra. Thats a fact.


you answered your own question :roll:

"goto" is not a word unless you speak C++


Nopes. I have given you a weak out and you took it.

Fact: Aus could use a Duke

Fact: Aus could leave more grass on the pitches.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:35 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
you answered your own question :roll:

"goto" is not a word unless you speak C++


Nopes. I have given you a weak out and you took it.

Fact: Aus could use a Duke

Fact: Aus could leave more grass on the pitches.


You are talking about a brand of ball when the topic is preparation of pitches. FMD :roll:
Grass doesn't make the ball swing.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:38 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Nopes. I have given you a weak out and you took it.

Fact: Aus could use a Duke

Fact: Aus could leave more grass on the pitches.


You are talking about a brand of ball when the topic is preparation of pitches. FMD :roll:
Grass doesn't make the ball swing.


Nopes I set the topic earlier to include the ball and home pitch preparation. Read up.

Grass assists conventional swing by keeping the ball shiny for longer. The grass protects the ball hence Adelaide having grass for day night tests.

Grass on the pitch also assists seam movement.

And the Duke ball has a more pronounced seam - also detoriates more slowly than the Kookaburra.

You seem out of your depth now Katto. Surprise me with an informed response.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:47 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
You are talking about a brand of ball when the topic is preparation of pitches. FMD :roll:
Grass doesn't make the ball swing.


Nopes I set the topic earlier to include the ball and home pitch preparation. Read up.

Grass assists conventional swing by keeping the ball shiny for longer. The grass protects the ball hence Adelaide having grass for day night tests.

Grass on the pitch also assists seam movement.

And the Duke ball has a more pronounced seam - also detoriates more slowly than the Kookaburra.

You seem out of your depth now Katto. Surprise me with an informed response.


All Australian pitches have grass on them at the start of play. The only difference is the length.
We're not talking about balls. You're the only one who wants to talk about balls.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:48 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Nopes I set the topic earlier to include the ball and home pitch preparation. Read up.

Grass assists conventional swing by keeping the ball shiny for longer. The grass protects the ball hence Adelaide having grass for day night tests.

Grass on the pitch also assists seam movement.

And the Duke ball has a more pronounced seam - also detoriates more slowly than the Kookaburra.

You seem out of your depth now Katto. Surprise me with an informed response.


All Australian pitches have grass on them at the start of play. The only difference is the length.
We're not talking about balls. You're the only one who wants to talk about balls.


Fact: different ball types matter for reasons above

Fact: grass length matters for reasons above

You havn't surprised me.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:52 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
All Australian pitches have grass on them at the start of play. The only difference is the length.
We're not talking about balls. You're the only one who wants to talk about balls.


Fact: different ball types matter for reasons above

Fact: grass length matters for reasons above

You havn't surprised me.


we're not talking about balls, we're talking about doctoring pitches

grass length affects seam, not swing

less grass will mean the pitch is more likely to crack at the end, providing guess what?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:55 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Fact: different ball types matter for reasons above

Fact: grass length matters for reasons above

You havn't surprised me.


we're not talking about balls, we're talking about doctoring pitches

grass length affects seam, not swing

less grass will mean the pitch is more likely to crack at the end, providing guess what?


Balls are part of the home team's choice and control , just like pitches, and like pitches there are variables.

If you're too dumb to understand that the ball used is relevant - then I'm wasting energy and time in explaining this concept to you.

Grass length also effects how long a ball will conventionally swing for. Again - if you are not able to understand this I am wasting my energy and time.

If the topic is beyond your capacity - just say so.
Last edited by Paddles on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:57 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
we're not talking about balls, we're talking about doctoring pitches

grass length affects seam, not swing

less grass will mean the pitch is more likely to crack at the end, providing guess what?


Balls are part of the home team's choice and control , just like pitches, and like pitches there are variables.

If you're too dumb to understand that the ball used is relevant - then I'm wasting energy and time in explaining this concept to you.


^avoids answering the question again, colour me surprised

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:00 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Balls are part of the home team's choice and control , just like pitches, and like pitches there are variables.

If you're too dumb to understand that the ball used is relevant - then I'm wasting energy and time in explaining this concept to you.


^avoids answering the question again, colour me surprised


Oh - cos NZ and England pitches with MORE grass crack to the same extreme like Strayas? Leave MORE grass on it if you want to avoid ridiculous WACA early 90's cracks.

Cracks will provide variable bounce (incl deviation) providing the ball hits it.

You're out of your depth Katto.

You appear out of your comfort zone given you don't understand balls, grass and swing (and seam) variables.

You're wasting my time and energy.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:07 am

In an interview with foxsports.com.au, New South Wales batsman Nic Maddinson was asked if he thought using the Dukes ball in Australia is a good idea, in the wake of England’s Ashes success at home.

“Not really,” was Maddinson’s immediate reply. “I just don’t think it would be the same over here as what it would in England.

“If you took a Kookaburra ball to those conditions, it would still swing as well, as we’ve seen in Australia when it’s overcast or humid and you play at the Gabba, the ball swings.

“I think it’s more about the overhead conditions a lot of the time than the actual ball.”

“I played a Second XI game, maybe a year or two ago, with a Dukes ball and it was actually easier to face than the Kookaburra,” Maddinson revealed.

“It didn’t really swing when it was new, it got soft faster, and because of the hot, dry weather in Australia the ball just wasn’t as effective.”


:cool:

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:13 am

Katto wrote:
In an interview with foxsports.com.au, New South Wales batsman Nic Maddinson was asked if he thought using the Dukes ball in Australia is a good idea, in the wake of England’s Ashes success at home.

“Not really,” was Maddinson’s immediate reply. “I just don’t think it would be the same over here as what it would in England.

“If you took a Kookaburra ball to those conditions, it would still swing as well, as we’ve seen in Australia when it’s overcast or humid and you play at the Gabba, the ball swings.

“I think it’s more about the overhead conditions a lot of the time than the actual ball.”

“I played a Second XI game, maybe a year or two ago, with a Dukes ball and it was actually easier to face than the Kookaburra,” Maddinson revealed.

“It didn’t really swing when it was new, it got soft faster, and because of the hot, dry weather in Australia the ball just wasn’t as effective.”


:cool:


He doesn't once mention grass and the duration of conventional swing. He also doesn't once mention that the duke ball has a more pronounced seam. He also doesn't once mention that the Duke detoriates slower in Aus conditions.

You're wasting my time and energy and it appears that you don't even realise it. But I'm done trying to get things through to you. It takes too much effort.
Last edited by Paddles on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:14 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
:cool:


He doesn't once mention grass and the duration of conventional swing. He also doesn't once mention that the duke ball has a more pronounced seam. He also doesn't once mention that the Duke detoriatrs slower in Aus conditions.

You're wasting my time and energy and it appears that you don't even realise it. But I'm done trying to get things through to you. It takes too much effort.


no, he assassinates your entire argument

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:15 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
He doesn't once mention grass and the duration of conventional swing. He also doesn't once mention that the duke ball has a more pronounced seam. He also doesn't once mention that the Duke detoriatrs slower in Aus conditions.

You're wasting my time and energy and it appears that you don't even realise it. But I'm done trying to get things through to you. It takes too much effort.


no, he assassinates your entire argument


The fact that you actually think and have supposedly comprehended this is why I'm wasting my time and energy on you.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:18 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
no, he assassinates your entire argument


The fact that you actually think and have supposedly comprehended this is why I'm wasting my time and energy on you.


The exercise will do you good. :cool:

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:20 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
The fact that you actually think and have supposedly comprehended this is why I'm wasting my time and energy on you.


The exercise will do you good. :cool:


Not everyone wants to run marathons Katto. Some of us prefer the stadium events for track and field.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:30 am

tell me Piddles, did the length of grass cause England to bowl too short in the first innings at Adelaide?
did the kookaburra ball cause them to bowl too short in the first innings at Adelaide?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:31 am

Katto wrote:tell me Piddles, did the length of grass cause England to bowl too short in the first innings at Adelaide?
did the kookaburra ball cause them to bowl too short in the first innings at Adelaide?


Who cares?

Totally irrelevant.

Relevant questions would be;

Did the grass length help enable movement for Anderson on day 3 night throughout and onto day 4?

Would a Duke ball further have enhanced this?

How about day 1 and 2 if he'd bowled well?
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:36 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:tell me Piddles, did the length of grass cause England to bowl too short in the first innings at Adelaide?
did the kookaburra ball cause them to bowl too short in the first innings at Adelaide?


Who cares?

Totally irrelevant.

Relevant questions would be;

Did the grass length help enable movement for Anderson on day 3 night throughout and onto day 4?

Would a Duke ball further have enhanced this?

How about day 1 and 2 if he'd bowled well?


:lol: :lol: :lol: this duck and weave

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:39 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Who cares?

Totally irrelevant.

Relevant questions would be;

Did the grass length help enable movement for Anderson on day 3 night throughout and onto day 4?

Would a Duke ball further have enhanced this?

How about day 1 and 2 if he'd bowled well?


:lol: :lol: :lol: this duck and weave


If that is what you think it is - you're illogical.

Its irrelevant by any logic. Bad bowling and poor plans is bad bowling and poor plans.

Answer my questions and you may start to understand why.

(Hint: Adelaide has longer grass)
Last edited by Paddles on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:41 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: this duck and weave


If that is what you think it is - you're illogical.

Its irrelevant by any logic.

Answer my questions and you may start to understand why.


Its not irrelevant by my logic. How do you know what is relevant?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:41 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
If that is what you think it is - you're illogical.

Its irrelevant by any logic.

Answer my questions and you may start to understand why.


Its not irrelevant by my logic. How do you know what is relevant?


Hint: Adelaide has longer grass.

Logic is not completely subjective bar possibly weighting. But your premise with Adelaide is erroneous. Adelaide is the antithesis to your core premise. Adelaide is offered as proof in part of mine.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:07 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
Its not irrelevant by my logic. How do you know what is relevant?


Hint: Adelaide has longer grass.

Logic is not completely subjective bar possibly weighting. But your premise with Adelaide is erroneous. Adelaide is the antithesis to your core premise. Adelaide is offered as proof in part of mine.


You do realise the grass was cut shorter this year?
You do realise the weather was considerably cooler and there was more precipitation, however the pitch was still drier than previous years?

You knew all that right?