BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Mick180461 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:11 am

Mitchell Starc has issued a ominous warning to England taking 8/73 in the 2nd innings against South OZ, at one stage SA was 0/137 and were all out for 206 so Starcs figures were at one stage around 0/40 or so.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:09 am

G'day Mick. Why is a Shield game being played on this postage stamp of a ground. No value for your shots. Interesting seeing Smithy picking Maddinson to open. This could be the making of the leftie as it will teach him some patience against the new ball.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:38 am

Is Ben Cutting injured? Live stream for the Blues game is pretty ordinary at this morning. :angry:

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:57 am

Ben Cutting to my knowledge is fine, just no room for him. Maddinson opening is just another push by Smith to get him in the side at the expense of Renshaw, though Smith scoffs at any suggestion he has any input in selections. Mind you Burns was dropped after 13 tests with an average of 38, so Renshaw may be heading down the same path. So of course Maddinson with an average of 6.75 should be a shoe in for the Australian side.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:11 am

MikeR68 wrote:Ben Cutting to my knowledge is fine, just no room for him. Maddinson opening is just another push by Smith to get him in the side at the expense of Renshaw, though Smith scoffs at any suggestion he has any input in selections. Mind you Burns was dropped after 13 tests with an average of 38, so Renshaw may be heading down the same path. So of course Maddinson with an average of 6.75 should be a shoe in for the Australian side.
That sounds like something our old bananaland mate Mike would say. Renshaw is here to stay. He is the real deal. I would like to see Maddinson stay as Blues opener to improve his patience. Was unlucky to play on this morning after looking solid in the overcast conditions.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:22 am

According to the media there's a big push for Renshaw to go. He's too slow scoring for tests, WTF. Great to see you too, Baggers! I'm interested in the keeper and No 6 selection, for the first test. Big push for Hughes because of his 50 last shield. Remember when consistent 100's at shield level got noticed, no longer.... 50's are all that matter, and they wonder why Australia is struggling.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:28 am

MikeR68 wrote:According to the media there's a big push for Renshaw to go. He's too slow scoring for tests, WTF. Great to see you too, Baggers! I'm interested in the keeper and No 6 selection, for the first test. Big push for Hughes because of his 50 last shield. Remember when consistent 100's at shield level got noticed, no longer.... 50's are all that matter, and they wonder why Australia is struggling.
A push by whom to remove Renshaw? I was not aware Australia is struggling Mick. More a case of rebuilding in my view. Wade failed today yet again. So the keeper spot is out of Nevill and Carey by the looks of things. Bancrofts name is also being bandied about by the media. Cartwright is the encumbent #6 and he got a fine 50 in the first Shield game. So he is in the box seat for mine for the first Test.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:30 am

Did you watch the 'Roos hammer the French last nite?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:42 am

It's Mike, not Mick, Baggers. The media especially Cricket.com, are all questioning Renshaw and have been pushing Maddinson as a more stable opening partner for the flamboyant Warner. That's why he opened in this game and the first game, trying to push his claim for the media endorsed attack against Renshaw, who has done nothing wrong, and should be under no pressure. But Burns did nothing wrong and was dropped. Bancroft's keeping for WA presently and if he does well, who knows, but if Nevill's the option I'd prefer Handscomb to W/K after all Nevill was sloppy behind the stumps in the first game very reminiscent of Haddin, and we all know how his dropped chances cost us Ashes tests

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Mick180461 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:48 am

MikeR68 wrote:It's Mike, not Mick, Baggers. The media especially Cricket.com, are all questioning Renshaw and have been pushing Maddinson as a more stable opening partner for the flamboyant Warner. That's why he opened in this game and the first game, trying to push his claim for the media endorsed attack against Renshaw, who has done nothing wrong, and should be under no pressure. But Burns did nothing wrong and was dropped. Bancroft's keeping for WA presently and if he does well, who knows, but if Nevill's the option I'd prefer Handscomb to W/K after all Nevill was sloppy behind the stumps in the first game very reminiscent of Haddin, and we all know how his dropped chances cost us Ashes tests

Good to see you around Mike. I'm not sure at this stage who'll be no 6 or who the Keeper is. Renshaw badly needs a good score going into the 1st Test, had mediocre tours of India & Bangladesh. I don't think hes place is in any danger but needs some time at the crease.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:35 am

Great to have the cricket back on Mick. Hilton Cartwright taking Smith's wicket should get him the nod at No 6. Who are the commentators on the cricket feed for NSW V WA. If they say Hughes is playing for the No 6 position one more time, I'll throw the computer through the window. How a first class average of 36 can even be mentioned for an baggy green is beyond me. Needs more time in NSW side first, considering he's 29 and only played a handful of matches. Jake Lehmann's probably done more in this round.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:00 am

MikeR68 wrote:It's Mike, not Mick, Baggers. The media especially Cricket.com, are all questioning Renshaw and have been pushing Maddinson as a more stable opening partner for the flamboyant Warner. That's why he opened in this game and the first game, trying to push his claim for the media endorsed attack against Renshaw, who has done nothing wrong, and should be under no pressure. But Burns did nothing wrong and was dropped. Bancroft's keeping for WA presently and if he does well, who knows, but if Nevill's the option I'd prefer Handscomb to W/K after all Nevill was sloppy behind the stumps in the first game very reminiscent of Haddin, and we all know how his dropped chances cost us Ashes tests

Hello stranger. Good to see you back talking cricket Mike. See how well I know you. That was a very un Mick comment but a typical Mike one that is why I questioned it. Mate Maddinson will not considered until he strings decent scores together. Not just a one off. Renshaw has done all asked of him. This is crap by the media to push for his removal.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:08 am

MikeR68 wrote:Great to have the cricket back on Mick. Hilton Cartwright taking Smith's wicket should get him the nod at No 6. Who are the commentators on the cricket feed for NSW V WA. If they say Hughes is playing for the No 6 position one more time, I'll throw the computer through the window. How a first class average of 36 can even be mentioned for an baggy green is beyond me. Needs more time in NSW side first, considering he's 29 and only played a handful of matches. Jake Lehmann's probably done more in this round.
Dont know the male commentator but me thinks that the female is Meg Lanning. Bunch of no names taking on the Poms that is for sure. I have only heard of NCN, Hinchcliffe and Bosisto. Mike I reckon Hughes is being talked up as he has had a couple of decent seasons on the trot. But as you say a 36 av does not warrant a Test call up. I think Smithy is a fair judge of talent. He wanted him getting runs down the order after a career as opener.. and the leftie has obliged with a 50 in his first game at #6.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:10 am

Totally agree Baggers, but he needs a couple of big scores to keep them off his back. Poor dismissals by Maddinson, Hughes and Patterson, but they seem to be the ones that the media are pushing for the No 6. What's the odds of Cartwright missing the first test? Worrying signs for Australia if you consider NSW are playing 9 Australian reps from the last year or so (Patterson and Hughes the only ones not to have, and you have to be honest there is a big push for both of them for the No 6 in the media), and they are struggling to get to 200 against a state side. They have to rely on the tail to score the runs just like Australia have to.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:20 am

Maddinson was a touch unlucky Mike playing on trying to leave the ball. The other two played pulls to balls that appeared too full. Having said that this youngster Richardson is slippery.. a good prospect. What have you been doing with yourself mate?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:29 am

Leaving the bat hanging out is completely batting technique problem, not bad luck. I've been travelling around your way....well by passing Sydney and doing the coast line around to Melbourne. Incredible scenery and loved all the small towns. Then came back through the Snowies, by passing Sydney, of course, and the spending time in the country towns. Glad to be home though, but with all the rain we've had the pollens are in full force and the nose is dripping like a tap.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:35 am

MikeR68 wrote:Leaving the bat hanging out is completely batting technique problem, not bad luck. I've been travelling around your way....well by passing Sydney and doing the coast line around to Melbourne. Incredible scenery and loved all the small towns. Then came back through the Snowies, by passing Sydney, of course, and the spending time in the country towns. Glad to be home though, but with all the rain we've had the pollens are in full force and the nose is dripping like a tap.

Maddinson was clearly trying to leave the ball but was a touch too late. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. By passed Sydney eh. Sounds like you and wife had a good time. Plenty of pics for the album or fone? Have you heard of MovieForums. Mick and I are on there and would love another Aussie to come on for the ride. Plenty of my quizzes and games to play.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:41 am

Just looked it up Baggers, probably won't be able to spend a lot of time there but i'll join up, what is your forum?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:45 am

MikeR68 wrote:Just looked it up Baggers, probably won't be able to spend a lot of time there but i'll join up, what is your forum?
You mean my username. Spookiemoviemania. There is one Aussie only quizz, a couple of Brit ones as well as some for the general community.. Are you able to post pics? Some fun games there too. What will your username be..same as here?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:54 am

Same as for here Baggers. Just saw your William Hartnell question. Only followed Dr Who until Sylvester McCoy. Haven't kept up to date with the current ones.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Mick180461 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:11 am

Guys the "female" commentator at Hurstville is named "David", haven't heard the 2nd name.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:24 am

MikeR68 wrote:Same as for here Baggers. Just saw your William Hartnell question. Only followed Dr Who until Sylvester McCoy. Haven't kept up to date with the current ones.
As a guest or signed up already Mike?
Do you like our chances of going back to back against the Poms?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:20 pm

baggygreenmania wrote:
MikeR68 wrote:Same as for here Baggers. Just saw your William Hartnell question. Only followed Dr Who until Sylvester McCoy. Haven't kept up to date with the current ones.
As a guest or signed up already Mike?
Do you like our chances of going back to back against the Poms?


Who would be a selector presently. To me the top consistent batsmen at shield level would be Warner, Renshaw, Khawaja, Smith, S Marsh, Handscomb and H Cartwright. Those 7 batsmen to me have the capability of scoring 600 runs per test. The tail would be bonus runs and 700 runs per test gives Australia only a 10% chance of losing. As soon as the selectors deviate from those 7 it increases the chance of losing. Bringing in the likes of M Marsh, Maxwell, Wade, Nevill and co reduces the number of batsmen to score 600 runs which is a 50/50 chance of winning, which leads to too much pressure on the batsmen and they will fail over the 10 innings, they can't be expected to score 50+ runs every time at the crease.
As for the bowlers the current line up of Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins and Lyon are incapable of taking 100 wickets over 5 tests, and their stats support that. Starc I can see possibly managing 25 wickets, Hazelwood 15-20, Lyon flat out getting 15, so that leaves Cummins to get 40....just can't see that happening.... he's not M Johnson, though the media are suggesting he may be capable thus the articles we are seeing comparing Cummins and Johnson. Even the media realize that Cummins has to put in a Johnson like performance to knock over England. The thing is there is no pure aggressive bowler in Australia presently and England won't capitulate like South Australia did against 1 spell from Starc, they'll see him off. And in that particular game SA were 0/130+ and in the 1st innings it was Copeland that was the destroyer, not Starc, nor Cummins. Cummins bowled poorly in that match 2/93 is hardly mind blowing.
Thus the conundrum for the selectors, do they sacrifice a batsman for a quality all-rounder, not that we have one of those, to cover the inability of the chosen 4 bowlers, or do they sacrifice Lyon for another quality bowler like Sayers, Behrendorff, Richardson, Mackin, Tremain, Siddle, Neser, Feldman, Doggart, Bird...the list can go on, they just haven't been given any substantial opportunity at present. Remembering Broad and Anderson have over 900 wickets between them and any swinging conditions that help Starc and Hazelwood will also be there for those 2 England bowlers and we don't play swinging deliveries well.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:29 pm

Sorry I asked Mike. ha ha. Most of what you say is spot on. Handscomb will not be the keeper. So we have to pencil in either Nevill or Alex Carey into that top 7. No the selectors must not sacrifice a batsman for an all rounder. We need all the specialist batsmen we can get to take on the Poms.

I should have known you would bag the all Blues national attack. Cummins would bowl Johnson under the table. Johnson had one skill intimidation with pace. Cummins can provide intimidation with pace (5kph faster than Johnno) plus can do plenty off the deck(unlike Johnno). We all know what Starc is capable of on his day. He to me tho is the weak link of our attack as he can let off the pressure too often unlike the metronomic Hazlewood.

How can you predict how many wickets each bowler will take mate? There are so many variables. On their day all three quicks have the ability to decimate the Pom batting. The big question is will all three be fit enuff to play all 5 tests? If not then we have all those blokes you mentioned waiting in the wings.

Baggers first test side.
Warner
Renshaw
Smith(c)
Khawaja
Handscomb
Cartwright
Nevill/Carey
Starc
Cummins
Hazlewood
Lyon
Behrendorff(12th)

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:27 am

Your team is the one they will go with in all probability, with question on Cartwright. They will choose Nevill even though his last innings was very shaky and he went early today. Amazing when you think about it for years we were told Haddin though he was an inferior keeper to Hartley, Haddin bought more to the side with his batting which wasn't that much better overall. Now we are told that the keeping is more important than the batting aspect, as that is where the NSW keeper dominates. Amazing how the arguments change to suit the circumstances, or maybe it's just coincidence.
It is easy to give a prediction when you look at stats especially as 3 bowlers have been given a fair go and you can read into their current form against their overall performances. eg Hazelwood in his last 9 innings has taken 9 wickets and 6 of those came in one innings... so 3 wickets in 8 innings or 4 tests doesn't highlight spectacular form currently, and he only takes 2 wickets per innings on average, so giving him a maximum of 20 wickets would be true to form and may be a bit generous based on recent tests. He may turn it around and surprise me but I'm just being realistic. Starc in general at home takes 5-6 wickets per test so predicting 25 is being safe he may push 30 who knows. But comparing Cummins to Johnson so early in his career is a joke, after all Johnson is the only bowler in the world to win the ICC International player of the year not just once but twice. Johnson was a strong work-horse, that maintained his aggressive bowling throughout. Cummins started in a blaze of glory, but since his return nothing overly impressive yet. And as I said 2/93 against South Australia in a shield match isn't spectacular. But Cummins has to be given a fair go and I would have him in all 5 tests. Lyon... what's the point for the Gabba, Waca, even Melbourne. But with 270 wickets from 69 tests that shows he is the best spinner we've got, so he will play.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:16 am

Mike is this to be a continuation of Hazlewood bashing where we left off? Starc may average 5-6 wickets per test at home so does Hazlewood mate. His poor returns are on foreign soil where he is still learning. When it comes to a wicket taker abroad I will go with Starc but Hazlewood on our decks every time.

Johnno was the most overated bowler we have produced. He lived with inconsistency his entire career. You could count the magic moments on one hand. One was definitely the 2014 Ashes when he was almost unplayable. Agree too early in Cummin's career to compare him against Johnno's career. I was comparing abilities. Give the kid a go. He showed us all what he is capable of when he was in nappies in Sth Africa.

Cartwright should be first cab for#6 as he is the incumbent and has done all asked of him since getting a baggy green. Give him a fair run is all I say. By the way Burns got a fair run but was just too inconsistent. Struggled against the moving ball. Not happy with Renshaws failure yesterday. The kid is lacking confidence and needs to get it back pronto for the Ashes.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:58 am

Not bashing Baggers. I remember once you pointed out how Hazelwood was one of the fastest bowlers to 50 wickets, remember? 54 wickets after 23 innings, yes it was quick. since then 35 innings for 64 wickets...that is an average of 1.8 wickets per innings. That's not good. Most bowlers average 10-15% of the times 0 or 1 wicket in a match, from Lillee, McGrath, McDermott even the mighty Doug Bollinger but Hazelwood is travelling at 26%. Most bowlers push 15 to 20% of the time taking 8 or more wickets in a test (that's a 5 for followed up by a 3 for). In 31 tests Hazelwood has done it once (9/136 against NZ day/night test in Adelaide)...that's 3%. Before you argue it's early in his career he's nearly at the half way point of Lillee and McDermott careers. Now don't get me wrong, this is not bashing Baggers, it is pointing out there is a problem for Hazelwood, and these sort of stats do suggest that Hazelwood is not a strike bowler but is a first or second change bowler. To start the innings off it has to be Cummins and Starc to take the new ball, and Hazelwood has to start taking wickets regularly to warrant his continued selection. If this trend continues then players like Cummins and Starc have to average 6 wickets per match to bowl sides out and not even the great DK LIllee could achieve that feat, he could only average 5 wickets per match. I like the presence of Cummins he will be good if given a fair chance, Starc is hot and cold IMO but there is nothing in his recent performances that give warning signs and his stats are gradually improving considering he had a poor start to his career.
Other predictions, Renshaw won't be in all 5 tests, the media are after him and the pressure from the media is starting to show and it is reflecting in his performances, he was more at ease away from the Australian press in the sub continent. Cartwright will be lucky to hold on to the No 6 position because the media make minimal suggestions at his presence, it's more about Maxwell and Hughes. Selectors rarely ignore the press.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:12 am

I dont disagree with Starc/Cummins opening the bowling. Cummins to tear away and ruffle feathers early. specially Cook and Root. Then Starc hopefully with some early swing and the ability to move it away from the left hander. Hazelwood is equally at home with the new or older ball. Starc has to have swing to be prominent on our decks. He is the most bowler at risk with Behrendorff breathing down his neck. Likewise Haze has to perform with Bird,Tremain and Sayers breathing down his.
What is it with the media. Were they blind when Renshaw polished off a sublime ton at the SCG in only his what was it..fifth test. Renshaw looks a traditional opener to me..as far away from Warner as you can get. He is prepared to sacrfice all to preserve his wicket. We need that type.. at least one of them to open our innings. Bloody media get off the kid's back and let him get on with what should be a long career.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:33 am

Baggers have you noticed the gradual change in comments about Joe Burns. At the time of his dropping everyone was calling for his head, now everyone is now saying how hard done by he was. Am I just cynical or are the media fickle? Same will occur for Renshaw IMO, who they replace him with won't bring anything additional. Poor Joe Burns! Never given a chance, maybe he should be considered as a No 6 a position he did well at when Clarke was out, and when Clarke came back....nothing, except destroying Joe Burns chance.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:39 am

Mike, not even the Windies averaged 20 wickets per test in their peak.

Hazelwood is hovering a whisker under 4 wickets per test with a SR of 55.5 overall after his struggles in Sri Lanka.

Starc is also hovering a whisker above 4 wickets per test with a swifter SR 49.6.

If Pat Cummins continues on his merry way, that is also hovering at 4 wickets per test at 52.5.

That's enough wickets between themselves to take most games into a second innings before Lyon is taken into account.

With Smith wanting 6 batsmen - Hazelwood's ability to bowl longer bowling spells become Australia's ace.

Lets see how keen Broad and Anderson are to bowl a spell after the second ball is 30 overs old and the tail is still not batting.

I'd be giving the pronounced seam to Hazlewood first to see if there's nibble or cracks to exploit before giving it to Cummins to bang into the pitch short and soften the ball up. Let Starc choose his end if he wants to find swing and be "attack leader". But regardless of who bowls first, I'd have Hazelwood at one end with a new seam to try n exploit.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:45 am

I always rated Joe. Watched his career closely even when he played off season in England. Rememeber thinking he had the game to play all formats for us. He copped a poor decision to drop him during the "witch hunt" last year when they were looking to rebuilt and clear out the dead wood. Mennie giving one test..booted Callum Ferguson given one test.. booted. A bloody disgrace when both had earned a decent run in the baggy green. Joe to be fair got a decent run.. never really banged down the door.. even you have to admit that.

How excited would these young Warrior rookies feel facing up to two blokes who have 900 test wickets between them. Probably more nervous excitement I would be thinking. What a athrill and opportunity for them. Carder looks the goods. Bosisto a former national U19 skipper. Hinchcliffe has been mentored by Brad Hogg and has big wraps on him. Both are chinaman bowlers .Some talent there that is for sure.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:05 am

Look how keen these two rookie openers Carder and Philippe look against Jimmy and Stuart. Philippe has a run a ball while Carder is solid as a brick wall. These two have defied one of the best opening partnerships England has produced to be 64 without loss at drinks. Philippe has produced some of the sweetest timed drives you will ever see.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:11 am

No side can ever average 20 wickets per test, draws occur, losses occur, run-outs occur, an occassional bowler such as Viv Richards takes a wicket. But all the greats even the WI averaged 2.2 and above per innings. Lillee was an exception obtaining 2.5 considering he was surrounded by bowlers also averaging above 2 per innings. But Lillee was probably the best bowler I've ever seen and smart as well. That of course takes nothing away from the WI bowlers, Hadlee, Imran Kahn etc they were all great, that was a great era of pace bowling. But in saying that 4 bowlers have to average above 2 per innings otherwise you have to look to occassional bowlers to take wickets to get 20 wickets required. It's one thing to be able to bowl long spells but wickets have to be obtained.... 42 overs in brisbane 0/99 achieved nothing except runs for the opposition and no wickets, the wickets still had to come from somewhere. If that performance is acceptable for all bowlers, Pakistan would still be batting. I don't believe a batting position should be wasted on an all-rounder, unless there is an exceptional one floating around, and Imran Kahn's, and Jacques Kallis's don't occur everyday. Wicket taking bowlers are required, and I don't think Australia has that right at the moment thus part of the reason they are obsessed with M Marsh, Maxwell batting at 6 to cover some of the missing wicket taking potential, which of course leads to extra pressure on the batsmen. It is a fine balance to get it right.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:41 am

baggygreenmania wrote:I always rated Joe. Watched his career closely even when he played off season in England. Rememeber thinking he had the game to play all formats for us. He copped a poor decision to drop him during the "witch hunt" last year when they were looking to rebuilt and clear out the dead wood. Mennie giving one test..booted Callum Ferguson given one test.. booted. A bloody disgrace when both had earned a decent run in the baggy green. Joe to be fair got a decent run.. never really banged down the door.. even you have to admit that.

How excited would these young Warrior rookies feel facing up to two blokes who have 900 test wickets between them. Probably more nervous excitement I would be thinking. What a athrill and opportunity for them. Carder looks the goods. Bosisto a former national U19 skipper. Hinchcliffe has been mentored by Brad Hogg and has big wraps on him. Both are chinaman bowlers .Some talent there that is for sure.


1 test is no opportunity and is kick in the guts. Joe Burns 13 tests for an average of 38 is better than most who have been given more opportunity for worse returns.

Hazelwood off to an excellent start Marsh, Cartwright and M Marsh the scalps damaging their prospects. Though Cartwright was unlucky looked like going down leg, unlike Smith's yesterday, missing off and leg and cannoning into middle and given not out.
The young Western Australians doing very well currently baggers, some prospects for the future Phillippe is a keeper as well.

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Re: BAGGY GREmuke EN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:43 am

Mike - I'm no fan of a bits n pieces cricketer at 6 neither, but Holding and Roberts were only a wisker over 4 wickets per test. Wasim Akram was a whisker under 4 wickets per test.

I honestly believe you have the benchmark set too high.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:45 am

I'd be giving the pronounced seam to Hazlewood first to see if there's nibble or cracks to exploit before giving it to Cummins to bang into the pitch short and soften the ball up. Let Starc choose his end if he wants to find swing and be "attack leader". But regardless of who bowls first, I'd have Hazelwood at one end with a new seam to try n exploit.[/quote] I agree with that Paddles. To me that is when Hazlewood is his most dangerous when there is some seam to exploit. He certainly is exploiting the seam in Sydney at the moment with 3-8 sending the Marsh brothers and Cartwright back to the sheds in quick time. Looked pretty much unplayable.. If Cartwright is being considered for #6 in the first test why is March batting him at first drop?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:55 am

baggygreenmania wrote:I'd be giving the pronounced seam to Hazlewood first to see if there's nibble or cracks to exploit before giving it to Cummins to bang into the pitch short and soften the ball up. Let Starc choose his end if he wants to find swing and be "attack leader". But regardless of who bowls first, I'd have Hazelwood at one end with a new seam to try n exploit.

I agree with that Paddles. To me that is when Hazlewood is his most dangerous when there is some seam to exploit. He certainly is exploiting the seam in Sydney at the moment with 3-8 sending the Marsh brothers and Cartwright back to the sheds in quick time. Looking pretty much unplayable.. If Cartwright is being considered for #6 in the first test why is March batting him at first drop?


Yups, Haze gets some nice tail at times with the ball but its also the ball that nips back in off the seam to that has him better a lot of batsmen.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:57 am

Where has WA been hiding Josh Philippe? Have not seen him in any of the recent national youth sides. I have watched a lot of cricket in my lifetime.. class drivers are as scarse as hens teeth. Phillipe looks as good a batting prospect as we have.. He has made Jimmy and Stuart looked pedestrian.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:01 am

Heh - I think Jimmy and Stuart have a whole summer ahead of looking pedestrian outside of Adelaide.

Where's my Duke ball? Where's my clouds? Where's my green grass on the pitch?

Why don't we play at Hobart?
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:15 am

baggygreenmania wrote:Where have they been hiding Josh Philippe? Have not seen him in any of the recent national youth sides. I have watched a lot of cricket in my lifetime.. class drivers are as scarse as hens teeth. Phillipe looks as good a batting prospect as we have.. He has made Jimmy and Stuart looked pedestrian.


Phillipe had a brilliant 1st game against Tasmania in the futures league 93 and 64, same game Bosisto scored 108.

Talk about letting the pressure off Moises is on

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:29 am

Did he Mike. Missed that. Futures League is poorly promoted and even more poorly covered. Phillipe needs to temper himself at times. Can get a rush of blood and try to hit everything. Where did he bat in FL game Mike..do you recall? If he is in the top order chances are he will have to put his keeping on the back burner.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:31 am

should bring in an ACT side to give more players first class level experience without having to compromise the state competition

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:41 am

Katto wrote:should bring in an ACT side to give more players first class level experience without having to compromise the state competition

In the FL you mean? There is already an ACT team in it. They should also play BBL in my view.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:57 am

baggygreenmania wrote:Did he Mike. Missed that. Futures League is poorly promoted and even more poorly covered. Phillipe needs to temper himself at times. Can get a rush of blood and try to hit everything. Where did he bat in FL game Mike..do you recall? If he is in the top order chances are he will have to put his keeping on the back burner.


He opens for futures but he didn't keep wicket, in that particular game, so the keeping is on the back burner.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:04 am

PM Mike.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:36 am

MikeR68 wrote:
baggygreenmania wrote:Did he Mike. Missed that. Futures League is poorly promoted and even more poorly covered. Phillipe needs to temper himself at times. Can get a rush of blood and try to hit everything. He tried lofting Mason Crane to Hurstville Station and has been stumped for a scintilating 88. This kid is certainly one to watch out for. Where did he bat in FL game Mike..do you recall? If he is in the top order chances are he will have to put his keeping on the back burner.


He opens for futures but he didn't keep wicket, in that particular game, so the keeping is on the back burner.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:27 am

baggygreenmania wrote:
Katto wrote:should bring in an ACT side to give more players first class level experience without having to compromise the state competition

In the FL you mean? There is already an ACT team in it. They should also play BBL in my view.


no, into the Sheffield Shield

I dont care about the BBL thats diluted enough as it is, but the 1st class comp needs more games and more opportunities for players at a higher level than A grade

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:05 pm

Katto wrote:
baggygreenmania wrote:In the FL you mean? There is already an ACT team in it. They should also play BBL in my view.


no, into the Sheffield Shield

I dont care about the BBL thats diluted enough as it is, but the 1st class comp needs more games and more opportunities for players at a higher level than A grade

Totally agree with that.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:26 pm

Katto wrote:
baggygreenmania wrote:In the FL you mean? There is already an ACT team in it. They should also play BBL in my view.


no, into the Sheffield Shield

I dont care about the BBL thats diluted enough as it is, but the 1st class comp needs more games and more opportunities for players at a higher level than A grade


You're a purist Katto, and according to the muppet show representing Cricket Australia, shield doesn't matter any more, nor does the list A comp. It's all about the hit and giggle game now, that's where the money is. One fool in CA even suggested that no one knows who won the shield final and now it's a year to year basis whether or not to play a final. So there will be no expansion into that area of the game. NSW play most of it's home sheffield games at secondary ovals until February where they may play 1 or 2 games at the SCG. I'm sure the majority of shield players would love to play once a year at the SCG. The List A comp is an occassional game in QLD or WACA with the majority of games played at substandard secondary grounds in Sydney. CA are not investing money in either comp.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:56 am

You around Mike. Bancroft putting his name forward for Ashes with a composed effort on a difficult track.