BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby raja » Mon May 28, 2018 11:03 am

I thought Ben Cutting did ok.
Dan Christian was almost an apology, using up a valuable overseas player's spot.
Hardly noticed Laughlin.

LOL at the above piece saying D'Arcy Short has loads of talent.

What do you guys think of him? I was singularly unimpressed.
Ofc, I could be wrong. I'd never even heard of him before the IPL auction. :-)

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby bolero » Mon May 28, 2018 12:29 pm

D'Arcy Short was poor.

Watson's innings in final was one of those Gayle like innings where he blows apart the opposition.

I guess SRH missed a trick. Watson struggles against quality leg spinners like Mishra, I dont know if they had one in their side. They could have tried out Shakib against Watson, worth a try.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby raja » Mon May 28, 2018 1:21 pm

They had Rashid.
Of his 24 deliveries, 10 were to Watson.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Mon May 28, 2018 1:23 pm

bolero wrote:CHENNAI SUPER KINGS
Shane Watson
Matches: 15

Runs: 555 at an average of 39.6

100/50: 2/2

High score: 117*

Strike rate: 154.6

Wickets: 6 at an average of 41

Economy rate: 9

Best bowling: 1/16

Arguably Australia’s most damaging representative and, disappointingly, not on the radar for international selection having announced his retirement last year. Batting with a strained hamstring, Watson smashed a match-winning hundred in the final, breaking the record for the highest individual score in an IPL decider.

DELHI DAREDEVILS
Glenn Maxwell
Matches: 12

Runs: 169 at an average of 14.1

100/50: 0/0

High score: 47

Strike rate: 140.8

Wickets: 5 at 26.4

Economy rate: 8.25

Best bowling: 2/22

Paid millions to be there and flopped to the point where he was dropped for the back end of the tournament. Was down on last year in nearly every statistical category. Should benefit from a change of format and will likely feature in Langer’s first team.

Dan Christian
Matches: 4

Runs: 26 at an average of 13

100/50: 0/0

High score: 13

Strike rate: 78.8

Wickets: 4 at an average of 25.3

Economy rate: 8.5

Best bowling: 2/10

Did his bit with the ball when called upon but featured primarily as a depth player. Seems to have lost his explosiveness at the crease, hitting just one boundary in three innings.

KOLKATA KNIGHT RIDERS
Chris Lynn
Matches: 16

Runs: 491 at an average of 32.7

100/50: 0/3

High score: 74

Strike rate: 130.2

Had a disappointing tournament, which is testament to Lynn’s freakish ability. Endured a shoulder injury and, at times, batted within himself while opening partner Sunil Narine teed off. That notwithstanding, it’s still strange he wasn’t selected in Australia’s ODI or T20I squads.

Mitchell Johnson
Matches: 6

Wickets: 2 at an average of 108.

Economy rate: 10.3

Best bowling: 1/30

Ouch. Looked short a yard of pace and seemed affected by an extended period on the sidelines. Wasn’t helped by KKR’s roster of strong international talent.

KING’S XI PUNJAB
Aaron Finch
Matches: 10

Runs: 134 at an average of 16.8

100/50: 0/0

High score: 46

Strike rate: 134

A disappointing tournament from Finch, who managed just 14 boundaries – six fours and eight sixes – in his 10 innings. Stands as one of the more senior figures in Australia’s ODI set up and will need to regain form soon.

Marcus Stoinis
Matches: 7

Runs: 99 at an average of 24.8

100/50: 0/0

High score: 29*

Strike rate: 130.7

Wickets: 3 at an average of 40

Economy rate: 10.9

Best bowling: 1/15

Was restricted by a shoulder injury and showed only glimpses when fit. Is fully recovered now and training with the national squad in Queensland.

Andrew Tye
Matches: 14

Wickets: 24 at an average of 18.7

Economy rate: 7.6

Best bowling: 5/17

Arguably Australia’s best import – perhaps alongside Watson – and has done everything he can to hold his place in Australia’s ODI pace attack. Claimed the purple cap as the competition’s leading wicket-taker, bagging four wickets or more on four occasions.

Ben Dwarshuis
Dwashuis didn’t manage a game for Kings XI but is on the radar of Australia’s selectors and will be better for the experience. Was selected in the national T20 squad at the end of last year but spent that tournament carrying the drinks as well.

MUMBAI INDIANS
Ben Cutting
Matches: 9

Runs: 96 at an average of 24

100/50: 0/0

High score: 37

Strike rate: 165.5

Wickets: 2 at an average of 84

Economy rate: 9.9

Best bowling: 1/12

Once near the front of the queue for a Test berth as a pace bowler, Cutting now provides more value as a power-hitting batsman. Hit a few long balls for Rajasthan and nearly pulled off an impossible comeback against Delhi with a blinding 37.

RAJASTHAN ROYALS
D’Arcy Short
Matches: 7

Runs: 115

100/50: 0/0

High score: 44 at an average of 16.42

Strike rate: 116.16

Wickets: 1 at an average of 19

Economy rate: 6.33

Is expected to open the batting in England with Aaron Finch, despite a modest tournament. Let’s put this one down as a learning experience. Still new to the international scene and has bags of talent.

Ben Laughlin
Matches: 7

Wickets: 9 at an average of 23.4

Economy rate: 10

Best bowling: 2/15

Played well when called upon, which wasn’t often. Was reportedly close to a surprise call-up for Australia’s T20I squad last year, but missed out.

ROYAL CHALLENGERS BANGALORE
No Australian players featured on RCB’s roster.

SUNRISERS HYDERABAD
Billy Stanlake
Matches: 4

Wickets: 5 at an average of 26

Economy rate: 8.1

Best bowling: 2/21

Didn’t get a heap of airtime but played well enough when on the park. Flew home in April with a finger injury but should be fit to face England.

https://thewest.com.au/sport/cricket/ho ... b88849447z


not many first choice Aussies in the tournament anyway

I don't know how Dan Christian keeps getting contracts, he's not even a good player domestically

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby bolero » Mon May 28, 2018 1:26 pm

raja wrote:They had Rashid.
Of his 24 deliveries, 10 were to Watson.


Yeah, CSK basically played out Rashid and Bhuvaneshwar Kumar, they ensured they were not given wickets and went after the rest.

Smart strategy.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby bolero » Mon May 28, 2018 1:29 pm

Warner was missed badly. He is superb in this format. The Aussies werent as represented as they normally are in IPL.

Cutting was good.

Jofra Archer of West Indies was really fast, clocked close to 150 kmph.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Tue May 29, 2018 1:30 am

Aussies will go to England without all three of their Test attack. Josh Hazlewood has been pulled from our ODI squad with back trouble. CA says it is more precautionary and is not stress fractures .. something that floored the quality seamer when he was 20. Little is being written why Pat Cummins has also not made the squad. Hazlewood will be replaced by Bulls bowling all rounder Michael Neser. This will no doubt please parochial Qlder Mike.. but I have to question Neser's inclusion given he averages @36 in domestic List A.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Tue May 29, 2018 1:39 am

John Hastings will return to his roots after signing a one-year deal with the Sydney Sixers.

In the wake of a last-placed finish in BBL|07 for the Melbourne stars, the fast bowler has decided it is time to head back to where he grew up.

"It is nice to be back in Sydney actually, it brought back a lot of nice memories walking through that NSW cricket office," Hastings said.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby raja » Tue May 29, 2018 9:33 am

What do you guys think of D'Arcy Short?
He was a flop in the IPL (to be fair to him, he got run out a couple of times) - but even otherwise I wasn't impressed.
Of course, it could be put down to learning.
He's still very young, first tour of India - not used to conditions.
I remember how horrible Punter was early in his career in India.

So you think Short could be a long-term prospect for Australia? In limited-overs at least?

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BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Going South » Tue May 29, 2018 2:39 pm

we don’t want any “unfit” Shorts in T20. Appreciate if you take him away from T20 and play him ONLY in test cricket.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Tue May 29, 2018 11:36 pm

Mitch Marsh is well and truly on the radar for future Test captaincy after being named to skipper the Aussie A side to India. Marsh leads a 14-man squad packed with talented young guns.. Alex Carey (vc), Ashton Agar, Kurtis Patterson, Mitch Swepson, Jack Wildermuth, Joel Paris, Matthew Renshaw, Marnus Labuchagne . Providing the experience will be Usman Khawaja, Michael Neser Chris Tremain and John Holland.

Joel Paris is a surprise as is Brendon Doggett.

Where is Joe Burns or has he cemented his spot in the First X1? How does Handscomb make the red ball squad..any national squad for that matter. The man is a walking wicket. Jake Weatherald is desperately unlucky. So who will open the innings with Renshaw in the red ball games?

Sorry the selectors have not found room for Jake Winter. The Canberra leftie now has only this summer's Shield to further push his claims for the 2019 Ashes. Very pleased Chris Tremain finally makes an overseas squad and he should lead the attack. The Dubbo- born quick impressed in an home A series two years ago but has since been ignored despite two impressive seasons on the trot. His omission could m no longer be denied after he topped the wicket tally in last summers Shield.

Perennial Blues kicker Mike should be tickled pink that 8 of his Bulls made the cut while only Kurtis Patterson is the solitary selection from south of the border. Shows you how much New South has fallen behind over recent years due to its policy of hanging onto dead wood and not giving youth a fair go...

On the whole this new look squad is reward for strong Shield and ODD form.

Australia A four-day squad: Mitchell Marsh (c), Alex Carey (vc), Ashton Agar, Brendan Doggett, Peter Handscomb, Travis Head, Jon Holland, Usman Khawaja, Michael Neser, Joel Paris, Kurtis Patterson, Matthew Renshaw, Mitch Swepson, Chris Tremain

Australia A one-day squad: Travis Head (c), Alex Carey (vc), Ashton Agar, Peter Handscomb, Usman Khawaja, Marnus Labuschagne, Michael Neser, Matthew Renshaw, Jhye Richardson, D’Arcy Short, Billy Stanlake, Mitch Swepson, Chris Tremain, Jack Wildermuth.



Tour schedule

One-Day fixtures - Vijayawada

17 August v India A

19 August v South Africa A

23 August v India A

25 August v South Africa A

29 August – Tri-Series Final

Four-Day fixtures - Vizag

2 – 5 September v India A

8 – 11 September v India A

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Wed May 30, 2018 7:41 am

:oops: insanity

Adam Gilchrist reveals Justin Langer’s ‘marry test’ for players
AUSTRALIA
May 30, 2018 12:03pm
by JACOB POLYCHRONIS
Source: FOX SPORTS
Adam Gilchrist has revealed Justin Langer’s bizarre new selection criteria.

Source: News Corp Australia
LEGEND wicketkeeper-batsman Adam Gilchrist has revealed the bizarre rule Justin Langer has implemented as part of his culture overhaul of the Australian cricket team.

The Fox Sports commentator said Langer’s players need to prove to the coach that they are worthy of marrying one of his daughters.

Gilchrist made the revelation on Back Page Live on Tuesday night after Langer set the standard for his players during a pre-England tour camp in Brisbane on the weekend.

“Langer, as you’ve heard, wants honesty and humility,” Gilchrist said.

“Actually, I’ve heard him say he wants his players to be good enough blokes that he would consider allowing them to marry his daughters.

“He’s got four daughters - so that’s the selection process going on.”

Despite the intense scrutiny Australia’s behaviour will come under in the team’s first series since the ball-tampering saga, Gilchrist said he expects the side will continue to sledge.

Langer spoke to players and coaches in Brisbane on Saturday and made it clear that banter is fine, but personal abuse won’t be tolerated.

“Get it clear from day one,’’ Langer said.

“We have to aim to be No. 1 in professionalism, No. 1 in honesty and humility.

“It does not matter how many runs you score. If you are not a good bloke, that is what people remember.

Langer: 'We've got our way'Langer: 'We've got our way'0:50
“Our mateship is really important. Sticking together.’’

Australia’s first test under the Langer era will come next month in England, where the new coach said he expects his team to be relentlessly sledged by the press.

But Langer said the abuse is part of the job and that his players shouldn’t be fazed by it.

“We are expecting plenty from the crowds and the media but that is England. When you are winning all the time and you are squeaky clean you still cop it,” he said.

“We will cop it just as much as usual. That is OK. It will be a good experience for our younger guys.”
https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/au ... 210b976a2e

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Wed May 30, 2018 8:36 am

raja wrote:What do you guys think of D'Arcy Short?
He was a flop in the IPL (to be fair to him, he got run out a couple of times) - but even otherwise I wasn't impressed.
Of course, it could be put down to learning.
He's still very young, first tour of India - not used to conditions.
I remember how horrible Punter was early in his career in India.

So you think Short could be a long-term prospect for Australia? In limited-overs at least?


Darcy Short had a brilliant BBL breakthrough last summer.

Got into Aus t20i.

Iirc there was a game vs NZ where he was down right awful to begin. Slow, streaky, bog ordinary. He was all at sea. But he didn't get out. He got better. And he ultimately played a huge hand in winning the game.

Give him time to find his feet. The verdict is not out from me yet on him.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Going South » Wed May 30, 2018 2:18 pm

BBL is very average compared to IPL on player skills & competitive nature. I doubt he can be successful in international T20s.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu May 31, 2018 1:29 am

Really katto. Missed that Back Page edition. Is Langer for real or is that a tongue firmly planted in cheek statement?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu May 31, 2018 1:31 am

there was a game vs NZ where he was down right awful to begin. Slow, streaky, bog ordinary. He was all at sea. But he didn't get out. He got better. And he ultimately played a huge hand in winning the game.

CA has placed a lot of faith in Short on the strength of his BBL performances. Hope that is not misplaced faith. Last thing Australian T20/ODI needs is another Glenn Maxwell..all show and little substance.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu May 31, 2018 1:55 am

Seems Joe Burns has not cemented his place in the Test team as the scribes are questioning why he was ommited from the A team to India. Burns has struck me as a talented strokemaker but with a dicey technique that has him knicking off far too often. Of his 14 tests he has been snaffled off the bat on 15 occasions. His average of @36 tells me he does not spend a lot of time at the crease.. so does not value his wicket with the passion needed by a Test top order man.

With Burns on the outer.. a huge chance for Matthew Renshaw, Travis Head and uncapped Kurtis Patterson to stake their claims for a berth against Pakistan in October. Evidently Shaun Marsh has already been penciled in for that series given his fine record against spin on the Sub Continent... surely the most important criteria for touring these parts.

I have seen a lot of Head and Patterson and neither are totally proficient players of spin. Capable at best. Usman Khawaja's selection is a bit of a head scratcher as he looks a walking wicket the moment he faces up to spin. Only reason I can see for his selection is that he can dismiss even the best spinner with class once he spends some time at the crease and gains confidence. It is the first 30 balls that are Ussie's biggest concern.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu May 31, 2018 4:02 am

I don't think there's a single player in the Australian squad in a post Steve Smith world who is a totally proficient player of spin.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu May 31, 2018 4:24 am

Katto wrote:I don't think there's a single player in the Australian squad in a post Steve Smith world who is a totally proficient player of spin.
Tend to agree mate. There is amongst the next gen.. a direct result of the CA Pathway program which ensures regular trips to the Sub Continent to study and play. So I am confident of an improvement going forward.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Thu May 31, 2018 6:00 am

baggygreenmania wrote:
Katto wrote:I don't think there's a single player in the Australian squad in a post Steve Smith world who is a totally proficient player of spin.
Tend to agree mate. There is amongst the next gen.. a direct result of the CA Pathway program which ensures regular trips to the Sub Continent to study and play. So I am confident of an improvement going forward.


You keep saying this but it reminds me of the same national curriculum pathway they put in place for soccer. They told us 13 years ago, wait for this next generation they're going to be sooo good because they've gone through the new improved national system. Well we've now seen the results and they're not pretty at all. The game has gone backwards and no talent coming through at all. Centralisation and national curriculums tend to kill innovation, creativity and natural talent while ignoring players who cant afford to go via those channels.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby bolero » Thu May 31, 2018 4:15 pm

Katto wrote:I don't think there's a single player in the Australian squad in a post Steve Smith world who is a totally proficient player of spin.


Agree

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Going South » Thu May 31, 2018 4:22 pm

warner can play spin.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:00 am

Going South wrote:BBL is very average compared to IPL on player skills & competitive nature. I doubt he can be successful in international T20s.


Well given he is averaging 49 at 149 in T20i after 5 games with 2 50's (incl one in a final)

2 games vs England averages 66
3 games vs NZ (then #1 in t20i), 43.33 at 166.66 (and NZ were playing a Santner and Sodhi double)

it appears that he certainly has already been successful in international t20 and has made runs against some of the best t20 spinners in the world.

I think that the guy is quite possibly still finding his way in the sub continent as against Australia and NZ pitches.

But on the basis of 6 IPL games where he struggled vs 1 succeeded in, and his BBL and T20i career, I don't think the writing is on the wall for him either way just yet.

It would be like looking at Martin Guptil play and fail in the IPL and stating he will not make as an limited overs international cricketer, when he surprisingly is actually one of the best in the world at limited overs cricket including t20i. He just failed miserably at the IPL and in India in general really.

There's more pitches, more climates, the IPL is not the whole world.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Going South » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:32 am

2 matches? lol. very small sample compared MANY IPL matches! Also, when was it again when last played in internationals? huh!

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:14 am

Going South wrote:2 matches? lol. very small sample compared MANY IPL matches! Also, when was it again when last played in internationals? huh!



Count again.

2+3 = 5 :P

They were all this year.

7 IPL games, 6 bad days, 1 good day.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:13 am

further to my point, we've been sending kids to India for years and we see no improvement..in fact they're getting worse

why? because we're sending pampered kids not kids with natural talent. these kids don't have the right mentality, you can give them all the opportunities you want but if the mentality and application isn't there its wasted.

and talent isn't some physical prowess either, its a frame of mind that you either have or you don't - a frame of mind to be OCD about one skillset and devote your whole life to it (this is why most of the world's best sports stars are boring interviews)

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:18 am

Katto wrote:further to my point, we've been sending kids to India for years and we see no improvement..in fact they're getting worse

why? because we're sending pampered kids not kids with natural talent. these kids don't have the right mentality, you can give them all the opportunities you want but if the mentality and application isn't there its wasted.

and talent isn't some physical prowess either, its a frame of mind that you either have or you don't - a frame of mind to be OCD about one skillset and devote your whole life to it (this is why most of the world's best sports stars are boring interviews)

I want to disagree, but the truth is that I understand your sentiment which is really talent + effort = results. And if I give you this generosity, you're right. And I agree with this. KW said talent is hitting the ball in the middle of the bat, effort is choosing the right shots at high percentages. And if we're honest, this makes sense for every single player. I don't know the mix for the best player, nor does KW, but I know what you're really saying.

And its not wrong.

So I won't be disagreeing.

There is a mental element and effort or OCD as Katto says to improvement that operates with the talent variable independently. Both are needed for results. The mix is debated or player specific. But talent with no effort loses to talent-less effort quite often.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Going South » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:26 pm

Paddles wrote:
Going South wrote:2 matches? lol. very small sample compared MANY IPL matches! Also, when was it again when last played in internationals? huh!



Count again.

2+3 = 5 :P

They were all this year.

7 IPL games, 6 bad days, 1 good day.

still a very small sample to decide.

it’s a hit or miss.

I rate recent IPL success more than international T20 success that teams play once in a blue moon single T20 match, many many months ago.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:53 am

further to my point, we've been sending kids to India for years and we see no improvement..in fact they're getting worse

why? because we're sending pampered kids not kids with natural talent. these kids don't have the right mentality, you can give them all the opportunities you want but if the mentality and application isn't there its wasted.

Where is your proof.. pure speculation.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:49 am

baggygreenmania wrote:further to my point, we've been sending kids to India for years and we see no improvement..in fact they're getting worse

why? because we're sending pampered kids not kids with natural talent. these kids don't have the right mentality, you can give them all the opportunities you want but if the mentality and application isn't there its wasted.

Where is your proof.. pure speculation.


we have the last decade as proof

where is your proof the next generation is going to be any better than the current?

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Going South » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:03 am

Oh. Looking at the history, I doubt next generation of Australian cricketers are going to be any good. You can see the slow death starting with Border’s retirement.

Gone are the GOLDEN DAYS of Australian cricket where they are THE BEST cricket team in all formats.

Brace the fact that “test cricket is on its deathbed” and accept to live with T20 cricket from clubs.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:32 am

Border's retirement?

Like before Punter and Gilly even debut'd?

Oh dear oh dear.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:23 pm

Katto wrote:
baggygreenmania wrote:further to my point, we've been sending kids to India for years and we see no improvement..in fact they're getting worse

why? because we're sending pampered kids not kids with natural talent. these kids don't have the right mentality, you can give them all the opportunities you want but if the mentality and application isn't there its wasted.

Where is your proof.. pure speculation.


we have the last decade as proof

where is your proof the next generation is going to be any better than the current?
I am talking about our best 16 yr olds that get to play in a local Indian or Sri Lankan junior comp every year as part of the recently introduced lower tier of the Pathway Program. We will see the fruits of their labor and CA's vision in years to come.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:09 am

baggygreenmania wrote:
Katto wrote:
we have the last decade as proof

where is your proof the next generation is going to be any better than the current?
I am talking about our best 16 yr olds that get to play in a local Indian or Sri Lankan junior comp every year as part of the recently introduced lower tier of the Pathway Program. We will see the fruits of their labor and CA's vision in years to come.


There is no proof of that. This is just hope and I'll put it to you these pathway programs never improve international performances because only a select few are chosen and there is no way of knowing these 16 year olds are going to be any good as adults. I gave you the example of soccer as being a parallel template as to why national programs fail.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:21 am


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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:49 pm

http://www.cricket.com.au/news/australi ... 2018-06-02

The Aust.Indigenous XI have made the perfect start to their 150-year anniversary commemorations with back-to-back wins over the Marylebone Cricket Club (MCC) in their double-header on Tuesday at Arundel Castle.

Indigenous XI Tour of England - Men's, Match 1
Arundel Castle, Arundel
5 June 2018

Indigenous XI win by 6 wickets

MCC
20.0 3-147

AXI
4-148 19.2

Match 2
Arundel Castle, Arundel
5 June

Indigenous XI win by 21 runs

MCC
19.3 129

AXI
8-150 20.0
Last edited by baggygreenmania on Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:14 am

Departing CEO says Cape Town saga had no bearing on his decision to resign after 17 years in the top job.

Yeh sure it didnt James.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby baggygreenmania » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:57 am

Australia Test opener Matt Renshaw has posted his third County ton for Somerset.

Renshaw's 106 was the centrepiece of Somerset's 7-307 on the opening day of their match at home to First Division ladder-leaders Nottinghamshire on Saturday. The classy southpaw has 411 @58 from just 8 innings.

Somerset need to make the most of the Aussie as he leaves the county in August for the Australia A tour to India.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:59 am


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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:55 am

I guess when they say Warner is the best odi and t20 player of the last 10 years they mean Australian, or this is the most ultimate slight on ABdV's retirement that I have seen yet.

Even then is - is he?

Shane Watto has been damn impressive for Australia in this period. Starc more than useful.

It is a bold claim. (My money's really on Watto).

Good luck Davey. Unlike many I always rated your talent, like many, not your intelligence. You're walking into the lion's den of public opinion. Don't make a fool of yourself.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:20 pm

Couldn't agree more Paddles. Warner is a media god-send, and he gives them plenty to write about.

Watson is the quiet achiever who is not a media attention seeker. Latest IPL 4th leading run scorer at the age of 37, whereas Warner in the Canada T20 league 8 games for 100 runs. A lot of media on Warner, but nothing said about Watson.

When looking at overall stats in ODI and T20 not much difference in the batting across the board, but Watson has good bowling stats as well.

When looking at the T20 World cup, that shows where Australia really fails. When the leading run scorers are Watson 537 (av 28) Warner 473 (av 21) and Hussey 437 (av 54) one can see Warner has failed which is the reason Australia are knocked out early. Also considering Matt Hayden, who is number 4 on the list, was the leading run scorer for many years and he only played 6 games 265 (av 88). Watson's selection is always questioned, Warner is an automatic. If Warner is the best we have no wonder we suck at T20.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:00 pm

Baggers, for me the Australia A team should be more for the youthful fringe players so Paris I can understand, but Doggett can't hold his place in the Qld side so his selection is questionable. Gabe Bell who is only 23 should have been picked over Neser, and to a lesser extent Nick Winter who is 25 but has only played 5 FC games, why is that? So obviously at the moment Winter is considered a fringe first class player but another season will tell us more.

The injury to Cummins is a big blow for Australia with the Pakistan tour, but the loss of Hazlewood is an exciting time for Chris Tremain. Chris has to go to Pakistan as he is the leading wicket taker for the last 3 years and has done so on the flat MCG wickets. He knows how to take wickets something the current Australian test bowlers don't know how to do, as seen in the last South African tour. If he does tour I hope he does really well to put pressure on the current bowlers. If he isn't selected there is something fishy going on with the selectors, probably not wanting to show up the current attack.

If Joe Burns isn't selected as opener for the India tour, it is a joke. Joe from 25 innings has scored 3 centuries and 4 50's. Renshaw from 20 innings has scored 1 century and 3 50's and Bancroft from 14 innings has only scored 3 50's. That surely proves he is the best we have had in recent times and if Joe is the bench mark for dropping someone then neither Renshaw nor Bancroft should play for Australia again. When they dropped him his replacements haven't lived up to his record. Renshaw has to play because of his slips fielding and he hasn't done that badly. Bancroft IMO should have been dropped after the South Africa tour regardless of the sand paper incident. But don't write off Weatherald and Harris.

Patterson's selection for Australia A also shows bias, no century at first class level for nearly 2 years and last year his average of 37 isn't anything to take note of. Garbage selection. Would have preferred Dan Hughes if you have to select the obligatory NSWman.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:46 am

I believe that Baggers is forum hopping. Don't expect a reply soon Mike.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:53 pm

Question for Mike:

I know you dislike the NSW dominance of team batsmen in the past in the Aus batting line up.

But given that Sydney is the most prominent spin ground in Australia, has the decline of quality NSW batsmen magnified CA's terrible performances in Asia with the bat? It would appear if a batsman spends half their games in spin conditions, and half in pacey conditions, they would need to be good at both skill sets to be in the selection reckoning.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:10 am

the decline has been across the country, not just NSW
we had plenty of decent players of spin from outside NSW in the past

T20 has destroyed batting prowess in variable conditions across the globe. Look at India on the road...

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:52 am

Katto wrote:the decline has been across the country, not just NSW
we had plenty of decent players of spin from outside NSW in the past

T20 has destroyed batting prowess in variable conditions across the globe. Look at India on the road...


Indeed. But it was a serious question. Australia's limitations with spin have seen failures in not only India, UAE, but also Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

Now it could be argued those countries are getting stronger, but we just know that isn't the case with Sri Lanka. They're much weaker than they were with Murali, Sanga, Jaya, Vaas et al.

It could just be a correlation between NSW dominance and Aus dominance in the past eras.

But I wonder, does a strong NSW batting team help Aus score more runs in Asia.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:14 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:the decline has been across the country, not just NSW
we had plenty of decent players of spin from outside NSW in the past

T20 has destroyed batting prowess in variable conditions across the globe. Look at India on the road...


Indeed. But it was a serious question. Australia's limitations with spin have seen failures in not only India, UAE, but also Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

Now it could be argued those countries are getting stronger, but we just know that isn't the case with Sri Lanka. They're much weaker than they were with Murali, Sanga, Jaya, Vaas et al.

It could just be a correlation between NSW dominance and Aus dominance in the past eras.

But I wonder, does a strong NSW batting team help Aus score more runs in Asia.


They are not getting stronger, Australia is getting weaker and weak NSW is symptomatic of weak Australia not cause.
The reasons why Australia has been getting weaker are well documented here.

Langer hasn't helped lately either by favouritising mediocre players from WA. Nothing worse than a nepotistic selector/coach.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:51 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Indeed. But it was a serious question. Australia's limitations with spin have seen failures in not only India, UAE, but also Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

Now it could be argued those countries are getting stronger, but we just know that isn't the case with Sri Lanka. They're much weaker than they were with Murali, Sanga, Jaya, Vaas et al.

It could just be a correlation between NSW dominance and Aus dominance in the past eras.

But I wonder, does a strong NSW batting team help Aus score more runs in Asia.


They are not getting stronger, Australia is getting weaker and weak NSW is symptomatic of weak Australia not cause.
The reasons why Australia has been getting weaker are well documented here.

Langer hasn't helped lately either by favouritising mediocre players from WA. Nothing worse than a nepotistic selector/coach.


Careful laddy, if Asian teams aren't getting stronger, and Australia is just getting weaker, the question is begged is Don Bradman could have batted well in a modern dustbowl or was just a product of his seam dominant era. Could Bradman have scored runs in today's Asia as well as Steve Smith? Grimmett and O'Reilly in Australia is not facing Ashwin, Jadeja and Herath on a dustbowl.

Bangladesh are clearly getting better.

Sri Lanka clearly no.

Tbh with you, I think India is better in Asia now than they were 50 years ago, but that isn't favourable for certain legends.

Australia may well be getting weaker, as are NSW.

The question remains, because it is not only Australia getting weaker in Asia, but England, SAfrica, Australia and NZ. ;)

So are all seamer countries getting weaker in spin conditions, or are the spin countries getting better in spin conditions? ;)
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:23 pm

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:the decline has been across the country, not just NSW
we had plenty of decent players of spin from outside NSW in the past

T20 has destroyed batting prowess in variable conditions across the globe. Look at India on the road...


Indeed. But it was a serious question. Australia's limitations with spin have seen failures in not only India, UAE, but also Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

Now it could be argued those countries are getting stronger, but we just know that isn't the case with Sri Lanka. They're much weaker than they were with Murali, Sanga, Jaya, Vaas et al.

It could just be a correlation between NSW dominance and Aus dominance in the past eras.

But I wonder, does a strong NSW batting team help Aus score more runs in Asia.


It is a common misconception that NSW have a dominance at shield level. That was true prior to 1966, more than 50 years ago, but since then they have only competed in 16 finals, compared to 26 times for Qld, 18 times for Victoria, 22 times for WA. And it is even worse if you look at the last 10 years when we have seen the collapse of Australian form. Victoria have won the shield 5 times but who have been selected for Australia? Pattinson out injured. Siddle, Handscomb averaged 43 from 13 tests and given the flick and Maxwell another media glory boy.

In 2011/12 NSW finished 5th in the shield. and look at the then current and future Australian reps they had playing for them that season Maddinson, Phil Jaques, Warner, Watson, Phil Hughes, Khawaja, S Smith, Katich, Clarke, Henriques, Haddin, Nevill, Copeland, Starc, O'Keefe, Hazlewood, Bollinger, Hauritz, not to mention Abbott and Tremain who has been selected for Australia, and now Patterson for Australia A, so his Baggy green doesn't look too far away. That's 2 Australian rep sides, and they finished 5th. WTF????

Less than a year later Michael Clarke who at the time was also an Australian selector chose his side to go to India where we lost 4-0 and the Ashes series lost 3-0... look at the batting line up for Australia 1st test against India Cowan (ex NSW) Warner, Hughes, Watson, Clarke, Wade, Henriques, Starc. By the 3rd test Wade's out and Haddin is in along with S Smith. By the 2nd test England Khawaja's in. By the 5th Ashes Faulkner finally gets his one and only test, scored 45 runs with the bat and took 6/98 never to be heard of again.

The decline in Australian cricket is the fall-out of the bias Michael Clarke years. The only players with experience at the international level are mediocre players, and limited opportunities have been given consistent performers outside of NSW. eg Kurtis Patterson has just been selected for Australia A with an average of 37 last year. These are the Queenslanders that had a better batting average last year... Renshaw (45), Burns (56) Labuschagne (40), Hemphrey (44), Heazlett (40) and that's just Qld there are many others from the other states. Nick Maddinson with an average of 23 gets selected to play for Australia in the recent Zimbabwe tour...Who in Qld has a batting average of 23? Neser... Queensland's number 1 bowler.

Katto is right T20 is costing Australia it's quality batsmen. Chris Lynn is a typical example. Has yet to be selected for a T20 World cup, which Australia has failed every time, which happens when you don't take arguably your best batsman. But Lynn also has one of the best Sheffield Shield averages currently 41 games for an average of 43.53, same as Khawaja av 43.49. S Marsh is only 40, Nic Maddinson averages 34 and has been selected, M Marsh averages 30, Bancroft 38, Handscomb 39. Why should he wait around hoping for a lucrative CA contract when he can make millions touring the T20 tournaments around the world.

Another reason are the current players are lazy. During the off season they put their feet up watching their cartoons. In the past the players went to England to develop skills they were dedicated to cricket. Remember Matt Hayden paying his own way to India to learn how to play spin, and he played well in India because of it. He was dedicated. His fitness training was dedicated. He spent hours in the nets with a bowling machine. The players today are paid too much by CA, so much so that CA are obligated to play them otherwise it is wasted money.

Look at Hazlewood approaching 2 million a year. ODI's you can say OK, but T20's and even his test career are average performances and certainly not worth being one of the highest paid players in Australia. Starc is probably worth it across the board. Smith is poor at T20 but continues to be selected. Warner is a fool and an embarrassment to Australian cricket and is not worth his 2 million. Lyons performances 1.5 million? Khawaja? Marsh Bros? Too much money for not enough work. 10 X 5 day games, maybe 20 ODI's and a few T20 games, probably only doing 100 days work a year for Cricket Australia including the training, they don't play much for their states currently, afterall they have to play 5 x 5 day games, not like the 10 x 4 day games state players play in the Australian summer, don't want to overwork the prima-donnas. Also with the rotation system in place for the Australian bowlers, another recent CA plan.

The legends of the game such as Lillee, Chappell Bros, Border, McDermott et al, all had to have jobs outside of cricket and train when they could get time. The current players should be the best Australia has ever had, they should be training or playing 38 hours a week for 48 weeks a year, it is their job which they are paid highly for. I doubt Australia's leading medical surgeons are on 2 million a year.

Paddles I don't know exactly what New Zealand players are contracted for but I seem to recall Kane Williamson is on 200K per annum and is the highest paid New Zealand player? So given that Trent Boult must be 200K or less. Boult took his 150th wicket in 39 tests didn't he? Hazlewood is currently 151 wickets 40 tests. Who is better value for money, if you were to look solely with a business perspective. Tim Southee took his 150th wicket in 43 tests, once again how much is he paid in comparison to Hazlewood? How many ODI's have those 2 played compared to Hazlewood or T20's.

Just goes to show how Australian cricket is wasting a lot of money, you can get 10 Boult's or Southee's for what they pay Hazlewood and a lot more work load for the price. What would Southee and Boult be doing if they were on 2 million? They would probably look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, run the 100 as fast as Hussain Boult, have Bradman's eye-hand co-ordination.

As I said over-paid Prima-Donnas in Australian cricket. Boult and Southee have never had their captain and Vice-captain lose faith in them so much so that he would bring out the sandpaper to give them an unfair advantage.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:05 am

MikeR68 wrote:Another reason are the current players are lazy. During the off season they put their feet up watching their cartoons. In the past the players went to England to develop skills they were dedicated to cricket. Remember Matt Hayden paying his own way to India to learn how to play spin, and he played well in India because of it. He was dedicated. His fitness training was dedicated. He spent hours in the nets with a bowling machine. The players today are paid too much by CA, so much so that CA are obligated to play them otherwise it is wasted money.


this 1000% :clap;