BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:33 am

MikeR68 wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Indeed. But it was a serious question. Australia's limitations with spin have seen failures in not only India, UAE, but also Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

Now it could be argued those countries are getting stronger, but we just know that isn't the case with Sri Lanka. They're much weaker than they were with Murali, Sanga, Jaya, Vaas et al.

It could just be a correlation between NSW dominance and Aus dominance in the past eras.

But I wonder, does a strong NSW batting team help Aus score more runs in Asia.


It is a common misconception that NSW have a dominance at shield level. That was true prior to 1966, more than 50 years ago, but since then they have only competed in 16 finals, compared to 26 times for Qld, 18 times for Victoria, 22 times for WA. And it is even worse if you look at the last 10 years when we have seen the collapse of Australian form. Victoria have won the shield 5 times but who have been selected for Australia? Pattinson out injured. Siddle, Handscomb averaged 43 from 13 tests and given the flick and Maxwell another media glory boy.

In 2011/12 NSW finished 5th in the shield. and look at the then current and future Australian reps they had playing for them that season Maddinson, Phil Jaques, Warner, Watson, Phil Hughes, Khawaja, S Smith, Katich, Clarke, Henriques, Haddin, Nevill, Copeland, Starc, O'Keefe, Hazlewood, Bollinger, Hauritz, not to mention Abbott and Tremain who has been selected for Australia, and now Patterson for Australia A, so his Baggy green doesn't look too far away. That's 2 Australian rep sides, and they finished 5th. WTF????

Less than a year later Michael Clarke who at the time was also an Australian selector chose his side to go to India where we lost 4-0 and the Ashes series lost 3-0... look at the batting line up for Australia 1st test against India Cowan (ex NSW) Warner, Hughes, Watson, Clarke, Wade, Henriques, Starc. By the 3rd test Wade's out and Haddin is in along with S Smith. By the 2nd test England Khawaja's in. By the 5th Ashes Faulkner finally gets his one and only test, scored 45 runs with the bat and took 6/98 never to be heard of again.

The decline in Australian cricket is the fall-out of the bias Michael Clarke years. The only players with experience at the international level are mediocre players, and limited opportunities have been given consistent performers outside of NSW. eg Kurtis Patterson has just been selected for Australia A with an average of 37 last year. These are the Queenslanders that had a better batting average last year... Renshaw (45), Burns (56) Labuschagne (40), Hemphrey (44), Heazlett (40) and that's just Qld there are many others from the other states. Nick Maddinson with an average of 23 gets selected to play for Australia in the recent Zimbabwe tour...Who in Qld has a batting average of 23? Neser... Queensland's number 1 bowler.

Katto is right T20 is costing Australia it's quality batsmen. Chris Lynn is a typical example. Has yet to be selected for a T20 World cup, which Australia has failed every time, which happens when you don't take arguably your best batsman. But Lynn also has one of the best Sheffield Shield averages currently 41 games for an average of 43.53, same as Khawaja av 43.49. S Marsh is only 40, Nic Maddinson averages 34 and has been selected, M Marsh averages 30, Bancroft 38, Handscomb 39. Why should he wait around hoping for a lucrative CA contract when he can make millions touring the T20 tournaments around the world.

Another reason are the current players are lazy. During the off season they put their feet up watching their cartoons. In the past the players went to England to develop skills they were dedicated to cricket. Remember Matt Hayden paying his own way to India to learn how to play spin, and he played well in India because of it. He was dedicated. His fitness training was dedicated. He spent hours in the nets with a bowling machine. The players today are paid too much by CA, so much so that CA are obligated to play them otherwise it is wasted money.

Look at Hazlewood approaching 2 million a year. ODI's you can say OK, but T20's and even his test career are average performances and certainly not worth being one of the highest paid players in Australia. Starc is probably worth it across the board. Smith is poor at T20 but continues to be selected. Warner is a fool and an embarrassment to Australian cricket and is not worth his 2 million. Lyons performances 1.5 million? Khawaja? Marsh Bros? Too much money for not enough work. 10 X 5 day games, maybe 20 ODI's and a few T20 games, probably only doing 100 days work a year for Cricket Australia including the training, they don't play much for their states currently, afterall they have to play 5 x 5 day games, not like the 10 x 4 day games state players play in the Australian summer, don't want to overwork the prima-donnas. Also with the rotation system in place for the Australian bowlers, another recent CA plan.

The legends of the game such as Lillee, Chappell Bros, Border, McDermott et al, all had to have jobs outside of cricket and train when they could get time. The current players should be the best Australia has ever had, they should be training or playing 38 hours a week for 48 weeks a year, it is their job which they are paid highly for. I doubt Australia's leading medical surgeons are on 2 million a year.

Paddles I don't know exactly what New Zealand players are contracted for but I seem to recall Kane Williamson is on 200K per annum and is the highest paid New Zealand player? So given that Trent Boult must be 200K or less. Boult took his 150th wicket in 39 tests didn't he? Hazlewood is currently 151 wickets 40 tests. Who is better value for money, if you were to look solely with a business perspective. Tim Southee took his 150th wicket in 43 tests, once again how much is he paid in comparison to Hazlewood? How many ODI's have those 2 played compared to Hazlewood or T20's.

Just goes to show how Australian cricket is wasting a lot of money, you can get 10 Boult's or Southee's for what they pay Hazlewood and a lot more work load for the price. What would Southee and Boult be doing if they were on 2 million? They would probably look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, run the 100 as fast as Hussain Boult, have Bradman's eye-hand co-ordination.

As I said over-paid Prima-Donnas in Australian cricket. Boult and Southee have never had their captain and Vice-captain lose faith in them so much so that he would bring out the sandpaper to give them an unfair advantage.


Who should the money go to if not the players? This has no easy answer as player strikes reveal.

And Australia by playing the players so much, stops player burn out and county/t20 retirement of players that NZ, WI and SA especially are suffering.

The catch 22, is they don't need the county money and are not bothering. Hence NZ is likely to perform better in England, Aus less so. KW turned down the CPL to play county (he has enough money from IPL to keep him more than happy with regards money).

NZ has a very good batch of cricketers right now, (but it's a rarity tbh), and an unfair comparison. And I don't think paying them millions now would make them as better as you suggest. If NZC had that kinda money, NZ could pay and get Shane Bond to coach them back to their peak, though. And he would make them look better, agreed. Money effects performance, but it's not a linear relationship.

And you're wrong about Lynn. No way is he making way over 2 million a year in T20. He'd be much better off getting a CA contract and a bigger IPL deal like Smith and Warner had pre-you-know-what. T20 outside IPL is not millions of dollars. It adds up, but his IPL deal is under 2m.

If you're right and the money is making CA players lazy, then the solution is simple - CA put more terms in exchange for that money that the players play whatever off season demands that CA has, be it county, IPL, CPL or what not.

NZC actually told Yorkshire KW was to play less county this winter as they feared burn-out. Southee and Boult have done nothing since the IPL. But Taylor, Wags and Henry went to county. NZC and SA guys are looking to earn even in lower paid gigs than IPL as they're not millionaires on central contracts. I agree.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:36 pm

You and I probably see Lynn differently Paddles, but you probably don't realise that Lynn will, in all probability, never score a lucrative CA contract, regardless of his on field performances, born on the wrong side of the border. Can't get selected for T20 team.... no chance for test cricket. So why should he hold out in hope when money is to be made elsewhere.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Kolkata Knight Riders pay him 1.86 million? Didn't he just sign a million dollar contract with Brisbane Heat? His tumble last year cost him 250K from the Pakistan T20, Hong Kong T20 he couldn't make either but he was the highest paid contract. West Indies T20 tournament. In August he could play Sri Lanka Premier League if he wishes if he doesn't play the Caribbean League, who wants to pay him the most?

How about the Canada League, the Brazil league, the USA league. How about the new Abu Dhabi League in October, they have some money there and are willing to part with it. Afghanistan, Bangladesh even England. If he stays fit he will be on some very good money guaranteed rather than living in hope that CA will give him a contract. I support Lynn all the way with his attitude of giving the middle finger to CA, by refusing to sign state cricket contracts, and making a career elsewhere. That's what happens when there is bias in selections.

These are the 2018-19 CA men's contracts: Ashton Agar, Alex Carey, Pat Cummins, Aaron Finch, Peter Handscomb, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon, Glenn Maxwell, Shaun Marsh, Mitchell Marsh, Tim Paine, Matthew Renshaw, Jhye Richardson, Kane Richardson, Billy Stanlake, Mitchell Starc, Marcus Stoinis, Andrew Tye. These are not the best players in Australia.

Not a single batsmen signed up has a better record than Lynn in all forms of the game, so if CA are serious about keeping Lynn then they should be giving him a contract, his on field performances deserve to be rewarded.

Look at the names, the current Australian players have average records and would have been all dropped in past Australian teams, with the exception of Cummins. The contracted bowlers the Richardson's, neither averages under 30 last year? Tye must be for the shorter formats because he didn't play shield cricket last year? Billy Stanlake who has never played first class cricket? These are just protecting the useless NSW bowling attack with the argument "There's no one better" .

Last year the best bowlers in Australia were Tremain, Neser, Rogers, Winter, Feldman, Bell, Kelly, they proved it with on field performances not because the selectors see some imaginary "IT factor". Pattinson is back from injury but has lost his contract, unlike Cummins who was out for 2 years with his CA contract, and his first game back...IN THE AUSTRALIAN SIDE. Like that would happen for any player from any other state other than NSW.

Aaron Finch? averaged 35 in shield. Burns 55, Harris 42, Silk 41, they performed on field. Who did CA call up to save face in SA....Burns, who scored 42 of the paltry 117, but won't give him a contract. How many all-rounders? Can't make the side with the bat, can't make the side as a bowler but give them a CA contract. Agar, Head, Maxwell, M Marsh, Stoinis, at best only 1 would ever play but CA give away millions. Meanwhile those that have mastered their art, are performing consistently on field, are overlooked and disillusioned with the selection process. Those millions could be handed to good fringe batsmen or bowlers that develop their skill set. CA are a joke.

The answer lies in paying all 1st class players the same. If they are selected for a test 50K for the test (10 tests a year 500K) If for an ODI 10K T20 5K
It keeps the performances up and the players have something to play for. But it will never stop the bias that Australian cricket experienced with Clarke, nor the bias selector that is M Waugh. Should have a selectors panel, one from each state, and decent players that know the game, not someone that relied on his brother to get him in the side. If it was advice on the ponies you ask M Waugh, not cricket.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:35 pm

Lynn's not not being selected in Aus t20 teams.

He's always injured.

But a 2m CA deal plus match fees - with the opportunity to still get those IPL dollars is still better than just being a t20 merc.

The big 3 - Ind, Eng and Aus still outpay t20 and keep the IPL open.

SA, NZ, WI - far less so.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby raja » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:46 am

Interesting discussion on Chris Lynn - and at a more holistic level, pay packages for T20 leagues.

I think playing for country in T20s is more of a "pride" thing - the real money is in leagues, especially the IPL.

Of course, you try to bag the best contract from your country's Board too, as you would do for every league.

But how many people are passionate about your country's T20 matches, except if a match has context - like a T20 World title at stake?

In the IPL, though each team plays 14 matches before the knock-out stage, each of those matches has context - especially since it could come down down to just a point or even just NRR when it comes to making the next stage, or not.

We need more CONTEXT for every game - in every format.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:18 am

raja wrote:Interesting discussion on Chris Lynn - and at a more holistic level, pay packages for T20 leagues.

I think playing for country in T20s is more of a "pride" thing - the real money is in leagues, especially the IPL.

Of course, you try to bag the best contract from your country's Board too, as you would do for every league.

But how many people are passionate about your country's T20 matches, except if a match has context - like a T20 World title at stake?

In the IPL, though each team plays 14 matches before the knock-out stage, each of those matches has context - especially since it could come down down to just a point or even just NRR when it comes to making the next stage, or not.

We need more CONTEXT for every game - in every format.


This is sooo overstated it is becoming a bit of a myth.

It isn't a blanket rule.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alistair Cook and Jimmy Anderson both would take home more from just playing tests, than Brendon McCullum makes in the same 12 month period playing in every league there is.

The Big 3 pay salaries big enough to beat the leagues. Lynn is much better off financially by getting a CA deal and IPL deal - nothing else compares to these sums for him - not the PSL, CPL, BKSS, NatWest Blast, BBL - any of them. Any danger of the IPL huge salary has been abrogated by the ICC clash window limited to England only (and it gets smaller there by the year - how many years will they invite Pakistan to tour? Any more than every second will sour English fan enthusiasm).

Now for Kiwis - there is no doubt that Boult and KW get their main money from IPL this year. Same with ABdV, too.


But for the Kiwis - Boult and KW need to keep excelling in intls to keep getting those IPL deals. Mitch McCLenaghan and BMac think they can keep getting those deals without intl cricket? They need to keep performing in that format then. Intl cricket still gives players a very very very good chance IF NOT THE BEST CHANCE to shine and secure deals in the leagues.

If t20 salaries get to the point that NZ lose talent like KW and Boult, my love for cricket all will start to wain I fear or I will choose between franchise t20 and intl cricket. I don't blame the players for taking money, but I will seriously question the structure. I have no issue with cricket going the way of football and basketball for the good of player salaries. But I do have an issue with the "pinnacle" not being the actual pinnacle.

Someone has to address the ownership of broadcasting rights and soon (within the next 30 to 50 years) to keep international cricket on top, or hand it over to the BCCI like the NBA controls basketball. Ultimately - only one (or the Big 3 for now) will survive if and when they continue to clash. Anyone outside the Big 3 is in total danger. Seriously.

I love watching Jimmy Anderson make the ball talk in tests, I love watching Andre Russell smash a century from nowhere in a franchise t20 game, what I don't love is watching an inept WI team get thrashed in tests thinking where is DM BRavo, or watching franchise t20 where half the squad is on intl duty or abandon the NatWest Blast due to CPL commitments leaving their team weak for the finals.

The Boards need to organise better between franchise cricket and international cricket, and stop clashing them. And if they want to retain international cricket, find a way to better redistribute the funds to the member countries.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:06 am

raja wrote:Interesting discussion on Chris Lynn - and at a more holistic level, pay packages for T20 leagues.

I think playing for country in T20s is more of a "pride" thing - the real money is in leagues, especially the IPL.

Of course, you try to bag the best contract from your country's Board too, as you would do for every league.

But how many people are passionate about your country's T20 matches, except if a match has context - like a T20 World title at stake?

In the IPL, though each team plays 14 matches before the knock-out stage, each of those matches has context - especially since it could come down down to just a point or even just NRR when it comes to making the next stage, or not.

We need more CONTEXT for every game - in every format.


This is why the old ODI tri-series was such a success in its day. You got to win a cup and usually it was 3 good teams - although there were some filler teams like NZ on occasions.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:32 pm

Katto wrote:
raja wrote:Interesting discussion on Chris Lynn - and at a more holistic level, pay packages for T20 leagues.

I think playing for country in T20s is more of a "pride" thing - the real money is in leagues, especially the IPL.

Of course, you try to bag the best contract from your country's Board too, as you would do for every league.

But how many people are passionate about your country's T20 matches, except if a match has context - like a T20 World title at stake?

In the IPL, though each team plays 14 matches before the knock-out stage, each of those matches has context - especially since it could come down down to just a point or even just NRR when it comes to making the next stage, or not.

We need more CONTEXT for every game - in every format.


This is why the old ODI tri-series was such a success in its day. You got to win a cup and usually it was 3 good teams - although there were some filler teams like NZ on occasions.


The tri-series was not a financial success against bi-laterals as typically Aussies only like watching Straya play cricket.

I liked the tri-series myself to see Aussies bring back leg spin and underarm bowling skills, myself though.

But noone really cared nor remembers who won the West-Indian Series Cup ;)
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby MikeR68 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:57 pm

Paddles, your slightly off the mark with a few things.

Australia pay 1.2 million US dollars (I'll use US dollars for everything for comparison) for a cricket contract previously mentioned, state cricketers only get around 200K.
England pay nearly 1 million US dollars for their cricket contracts but 500K for a superior 1st class cricketer
South Africa pay approximately 350K 220K for a good 1st class cricketer
India only pay approximately 300K, 150 k for 1st class cricketer
NZ pay about 150K but for 1st class players around 50K, they need a part time job. So how can they do the training to further themselves?
West Indies pay a standard 100k regardless.

If you look only at the contract retainers (and not match-fees payments), Australia and England pay their top players nearly four times as much as India

That's for standard contracts for players that may never actually play for their country. There is a major discrepancy between Australia top contracted players and 1st class players. These contracts in a lot of cases are based on someones opinion that someone has an "IT Factor".

CA 2017-18 contract list: Ashton Agar, Jackson Bird, Hilton Cartwright, Pat Cummins, Aaron Finch, Peter Handscomb, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon, Mitchell Marsh, Glenn Maxwell, James Pattinson, Matthew Renshaw, Steve Smith, Billy Stanlake, Mitchell Starc, Matthew Wade, David Warner, Adam Zampa. Some of these players never played for Australia much in the last 18 months. A lot have shown poor form in the last 18 months. You can only honestly say Smith, Cummins, Lyon have shown good form and possibly Starc and Warner. Loses to India, Sri lanka, South Africa draw with Bangladesh. It is a purely bias opinion. If I was to select 20 players for these contracts it would not contain many of these names, and someone like Baggers would differ again, he'd have the entire NSW side on contract regardless that they can't win. These contracts are purely opinions, and due to the amount paid they have to select them in the Australian side.

India pay top dollars when their players play for their country around 25K for a test, 10K for ODI and 5K T20
Australia only pay around 15K for a test 5K for an ODI and 4K for T20
England around 20K for a test 7K for ODI and 5K for T20
New Zealand, South Africa and West Indies pay around 6K for a test $2500 for ODI and 2K for T20

Personally I like the way India pay their players. They reward selection and good performances.

You talk about Lynn is better off with CA contract and playing IPL you are correct but the reality is for the last 9 years, he has been awarded a state contract of less than 200K (remember he has a lot taken out in taxes) $5000 for ODI's and 40K for T20. So the big CA has only paid Lynn 45K in 9 years and after taxes doesn't even buy a car the rest is paid by Queensland Cricket.

Compare to someone like Aaron Finch who has an inferior 1st class record to Lynn has been awarded million dollar CA contracts, 500K for ODI's, 200K for T20's. You still think Lynn should hold out for CA contracts and give up T20 tournaments around the world. He needs to set up himself and his family for the many years following cricket. No one should live in hope, if the money is there you have to take it. By refusing to sign a lousy 200K state cricket contract which ties him up for nearly 6 months, he will make up this loss and more by making himself available elsewhere.

If Lynn shows how to do it many young players will follow his example, especially those from states outside NSW, because I know of many talented players who gave up cricket to pursue other career paths, because they were continuously overlooked in the junior ranks in favour of NSW players or players with contacts, eg the latest U19 side contained seven players from New South Wales, three from Victoria, three from Queensland (one is from NSW and is really poor, one from SA also questionable, so really only one Qlder) and one each from South Australia and Tasmania including Alister Waugh (father Steve) and James Sutherland's son Will.

You also are under-valuing NZ cricket. Correct me if I am wrong but in the last 20 years of ODI World Cups NZ have made at least the quarter finals, on all but 2 occassions have made the semi's and have competed in the final. Currently ranked No4 at test level, just behind Australia with all their millionaires, No 3 in ODI's 3 places ahead of their millionaire counterparts, and No5 in T20 2 places behind their overpaid counterparts. Not bad for cricketers that have in all probability held down a job outside cricket, especially in their early years. So if NZ can achieve so much being paid so little do you think the Australian players are worth their wages?

Maybe it is just me but if CA gave me a million dollar contract I would be putting the training in, playing as much as I could during the off season, not sitting back like the current players are doing counting their money. Renshaw went to England so I give him respect and he's did well. So did Head not doing as well but at least he is trying.

The current Australian cricketers don't care if they win or lose just as long as they get paid. Warner has only played 28 1st class games outside his tests which he has been paid over a million dollars for, just in match payments. 45 list a games outside his ODI's which he has been paid 600K in match payments and has earned 300K for T20 and most of his T20 games outside his Australian representation have been in the IPL on a massive contract. What exactly has his million dollars CA contacts actually bought, he rarely plays outside his Australian representation which he has been paid over 2 million just in match payments (10 years of state contracts)? To me Warner is probably the most expensive bludger in Australia because I don't see payments of nearly 10 million by CA has improved his game at all. Still he has no idea what a defensive shot is, which could have been rectified in the last 10 years. Ricky Ponting, Matt Hayden, Justin langer, Steve Waugh, Allan Border, Greg Chappell finished their careers with 300+ FC games under their belts. Warner makes out how hard he has had it in life, only 100 FC games under his belt, I call it a privileged life. And look how he has repaid CA.

Remember Kholi going off at Smith because he was all mic'd up whilst batting in a T20 game (earning money for commentary obviously), they just don't take it seriously especially T20 but they get paid so they don't care and it is insulting to the opposition who take the game seriously. Credit to Kholi he lives and breathes cricket. Respect to him.

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:19 am

MikeR68 wrote:Paddles, your slightly off the mark with a few things.

Australia pay 1.2 million US dollars (I'll use US dollars for everything for comparison) for a cricket contract previously mentioned, state cricketers only get around 200K.
England pay nearly 1 million US dollars for their cricket contracts but 500K for a superior 1st class cricketer
South Africa pay approximately 350K 220K for a good 1st class cricketer
India only pay approximately 300K, 150 k for 1st class cricketer
NZ pay about 150K but for 1st class players around 50K, they need a part time job. So how can they do the training to further themselves?
West Indies pay a standard 100k regardless.

If you look only at the contract retainers (and not match-fees payments), Australia and England pay their top players nearly four times as much as India

That's for standard contracts for players that may never actually play for their country. There is a major discrepancy between Australia top contracted players and 1st class players. These contracts in a lot of cases are based on someones opinion that someone has an "IT Factor".

CA 2017-18 contract list: Ashton Agar, Jackson Bird, Hilton Cartwright, Pat Cummins, Aaron Finch, Peter Handscomb, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon, Mitchell Marsh, Glenn Maxwell, James Pattinson, Matthew Renshaw, Steve Smith, Billy Stanlake, Mitchell Starc, Matthew Wade, David Warner, Adam Zampa. Some of these players never played for Australia much in the last 18 months. A lot have shown poor form in the last 18 months. You can only honestly say Smith, Cummins, Lyon have shown good form and possibly Starc and Warner. Loses to India, Sri lanka, South Africa draw with Bangladesh. It is a purely bias opinion. If I was to select 20 players for these contracts it would not contain many of these names, and someone like Baggers would differ again, he'd have the entire NSW side on contract regardless that they can't win. These contracts are purely opinions, and due to the amount paid they have to select them in the Australian side.

India pay top dollars when their players play for their country around 25K for a test, 10K for ODI and 5K T20
Australia only pay around 15K for a test 5K for an ODI and 4K for T20
England around 20K for a test 7K for ODI and 5K for T20
New Zealand, South Africa and West Indies pay around 6K for a test $2500 for ODI and 2K for T20

Personally I like the way India pay their players. They reward selection and good performances.

You talk about Lynn is better off with CA contract and playing IPL you are correct but the reality is for the last 9 years, he has been awarded a state contract of less than 200K (remember he has a lot taken out in taxes) $5000 for ODI's and 40K for T20. So the big CA has only paid Lynn 45K in 9 years and after taxes doesn't even buy a car the rest is paid by Queensland Cricket.

Compare to someone like Aaron Finch who has an inferior 1st class record to Lynn has been awarded million dollar CA contracts, 500K for ODI's, 200K for T20's. You still think Lynn should hold out for CA contracts and give up T20 tournaments around the world. He needs to set up himself and his family for the many years following cricket. No one should live in hope, if the money is there you have to take it. By refusing to sign a lousy 200K state cricket contract which ties him up for nearly 6 months, he will make up this loss and more by making himself available elsewhere.

If Lynn shows how to do it many young players will follow his example, especially those from states outside NSW, because I know of many talented players who gave up cricket to pursue other career paths, because they were continuously overlooked in the junior ranks in favour of NSW players or players with contacts, eg the latest U19 side contained seven players from New South Wales, three from Victoria, three from Queensland (one is from NSW and is really poor, one from SA also questionable, so really only one Qlder) and one each from South Australia and Tasmania including Alister Waugh (father Steve) and James Sutherland's son Will.

You also are under-valuing NZ cricket. Correct me if I am wrong but in the last 20 years of ODI World Cups NZ have made at least the quarter finals, on all but 2 occassions have made the semi's and have competed in the final. Currently ranked No4 at test level, just behind Australia with all their millionaires, No 3 in ODI's 3 places ahead of their millionaire counterparts, and No5 in T20 2 places behind their overpaid counterparts. Not bad for cricketers that have in all probability held down a job outside cricket, especially in their early years. So if NZ can achieve so much being paid so little do you think the Australian players are worth their wages?

Maybe it is just me but if CA gave me a million dollar contract I would be putting the training in, playing as much as I could during the off season, not sitting back like the current players are doing counting their money. Renshaw went to England so I give him respect and he's did well. So did Head not doing as well but at least he is trying.

The current Australian cricketers don't care if they win or lose just as long as they get paid. Warner has only played 28 1st class games outside his tests which he has been paid over a million dollars for, just in match payments. 45 list a games outside his ODI's which he has been paid 600K in match payments and has earned 300K for T20 and most of his T20 games outside his Australian representation have been in the IPL on a massive contract. What exactly has his million dollars CA contacts actually bought, he rarely plays outside his Australian representation which he has been paid over 2 million just in match payments (10 years of state contracts)? To me Warner is probably the most expensive bludger in Australia because I don't see payments of nearly 10 million by CA has improved his game at all. Still he has no idea what a defensive shot is, which could have been rectified in the last 10 years. Ricky Ponting, Matt Hayden, Justin langer, Steve Waugh, Allan Border, Greg Chappell finished their careers with 300+ FC games under their belts. Warner makes out how hard he has had it in life, only 100 FC games under his belt, I call it a privileged life. And look how he has repaid CA.

Remember Kholi going off at Smith because he was all mic'd up whilst batting in a T20 game (earning money for commentary obviously), they just don't take it seriously especially T20 but they get paid so they don't care and it is insulting to the opposition who take the game seriously. Credit to Kholi he lives and breathes cricket. Respect to him.


Why would I exclude match fee's from what the Board's pay their players to work out what the Boards are paying the players?

But it really doesn't matter to my main point which is England, Aus and India cricketers are not rationally incentivised by monetary means to quit playing for their countries and join t20 leagues. The only big salary equivalent to Aus, Ind or Eng salaries t20 is the IPL, and doing both is far more lucrative than doing just the IPL and going on the circuit for the rest of the year. Australia has a nice IPL window and will not tour during this event nor host.

The BBL, CPL, BPL, PSL, et al don't equate to a big 3 salary nor a lucrative IPL deal.

But this financial incentive to keep playing international cricket is not true for NZ, SA, WI players and anyone else not in the Big 3.

http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/ ... in-cricket

And I am hardly undervaluing NZC. I know NZC has a fantastic record in World Cups. I know NZC players get far less than their counterparts in Eng, Aus and Ind. And I have seen Mitch McClenaghan, BMac, Ronchi, Grant Elliott and more retire from NZL for the T20 leagues. I accept t20 franchises is a danger to WI, SA, and NZ retirements of leading players - but its not for leading Eng, Aus and Ind players. That is my point.

Lynn is injury prone and this has cost him achieving more in an international career. He is even crippled by playing t20 - just how physical is batting and fielding for 40 overs? Good luck for him ever playing tests. With or without t20 leagues. If Lynn could stay fit and scored international runs like Finch, he would be remunerated like Finch as a leading player. But Lynn is seemingly made of glass and paid accordingly by CA.

And your linear association between money and performance isn't valid. You may as well just say the poor are worse cricketers for lack of money, and the rich are expected to be better cricketers by virtue of having money. I believe that you're overstating the correlation between money and performance as a total expectation for causation. Money definitely may help performance, I agree, keeps the players happier, buys coaches, less stresses and worries, less resentments nor feelings of being under-valued etc. Could the poor perform better with more money? Absolutely, I agree. But money by itself does not automatically make a rich cricketer better than a poor one. Money is not talent. Can the rich perform better with even more money? Not likely to increase results as against the poor - it depends on talent and determination as a lack of money effecting performance has been removed as a factor by them already being paid handsomely. Hence the relationship is not linear.

Does money influence success? Yes. But economic theory will tell you that you get DIMINISHING RETURNS for every additional dollar you put in at some point in achieving an objective. To expect a linear result is nonsense. No offense. And while this may sound odd, it may be that the riches of the IPL actually increase the performance output from the poorest nations like Afghanistan. That is the hunger for money leads to better performances by the players. So despite playing a losing team for peanuts, the t20 franchises offer a great carrot for success at international level.
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:04 pm

India B better than India A, shows what selectors know

maybe Australia B would be better than Australia A
maybe Australia B would be better than Australia

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Paddles » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:15 pm

Warne has written a new book continuing his feud with SWaugh.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/a ... d=12135671
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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Going South » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:45 am

lol. waiting for S waugh write another book on his version of response.

WTH is wrong with all cricketers writing books?

I missed the noise before the book announcement, did any one said “osama” to anybody else prior to book announcement? ;)

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:54 am

We now have a dedicated cricket channel here in Australia :up:

thumbs down for the result of tonight's match

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Going South » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:39 pm

we also have Willow tv ;)

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Re: BAGGY GREEN: The Many Faces Of Australian Cricket

Postby Katto » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:41 pm

Going South wrote:we also have Willow tv ;)


I'm sure whatever you have is better...but we're in a better situation now that the Channel 9 era is over.