Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby bolero » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:08 pm

Yeah, just to elaborate, I meant Doull and Manjrekar for India criticise without providing solutions.

Sack the coach is very easy to say. As you say, NZ did well in India. NZ is a good team.They just beat Pak 5-0 in ODIs. T20 is a matter of luck.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:09 pm

bolero wrote:Yeah, just to elaborate, I meant Doull and Manjrekar for India criticise without providing solutions.

Sack the coach is very easy to say. As you say, NZ did well in India. NZ is a good team.They just beat Pak 5-0 in ODIs. T20 is a matter of luck.


A lot of NZ's woes are cross format though. In t20 it is exacerbated given KW being ineffective of late.

In tests, at 5 and 6 (and Latham opening) - NZC is short on runs. Raval, KW and Taylor fine.

In odi, at 5, 6, 7 and 8 - NZC is short on runs. CDG will bat in one spot - but his bowling in this format is a problem. Munro, Gup, KW and Taylor fine.

In T20i, at 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 - NZC is short on runs. CDG will bat in one spot - but his bowling in this format is a problem. But the openers in Guppie and Munro are holding their own. But if one of these 2 don't make a score, the innings is falling apart quicksmart. Southee is back cos Milne is injured, it isn't like Hess won't drop him someone is better out there.

Doull wants Seifert for Blundell. Fine. But he won't be opening.

Doull wants Chapman for Taylor. Fine. But he wont be batting ahead of Gup, Munro or KW. And I not only did think Bruce is more likely to go first, he has been confirmed as dropped for Chapman..

Doull wants Devecich for KW or Southee? Does NZ need a 3rd spinner? And he won't be opening neither. He suddenly, in this team and playing xi, with Sodhi and Santner, becomes a lesser utility selection. NZ need a middle order who can score swiftly in the overs 7-20 with field out; all Doull bar #3 Chapman is pointing to is 2 further openers, to go with the 2 we already have.

And Tom Bruce's troubles at intl level after starring domestically are not the best sales pitch for the domestic players. Nor is Blundell's recent limited overs form.

I believe Chapman is an able player, notwithstanding. He makes rookie errors though in his running between wickets and shot selection. But Devecich has had many chances, will get another too at some point, but has not converted them into making himself a regular member of the team.

But none of the above is sack a coach material who has kept NZ at respectable levels for years now doing things his way.

Billy Stanlake pushes NZ around and Maxy is in form. Suddenly Doull thinks Aus have provided the answers to NZC to drop the coach. Well NZ are not used to someone that tall and fast bowling to them, and there's no middle order Maxwell type players in NZ domestic. If there were either, I'd be all over it. Chapman at 3 is the closest NZ has. And he doesn't clear small NZ boundaries a lot. So he still lacks Maxwell's 6 hitting around the ground. But Chapman does hit big with a few shots.

I do hope to see more aggression from KW, though. He's been in this position in limited overs before, and responded very well. But NZC just do not have all the Smith, Warner, Lynn, and the mercurial Maxwell types of IPL big salary players. To suggest NZ should sack its biggest IPL earn, its captain, as well as the coach, with a brand new middle order of opening batsmen, including a third spinner, is just a bit on the nose to the NZC team to me.
Last edited by Paddles on Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:01 pm

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/ ... and-debuts

Tom Bruce and Tom Blundell dropped.

Tim Seifert and Mark Chapman in.

No surprises there. But will take a lot of the wind out of Doull's sails who is now only left with a Devecich gripe for KW and/or Taylor. A more difficult sell for Doull to get public support for dropping the coach over. I understand Devecich's omission despite him rating #1 in run scorers and #3 in bowlers in the recently concluded Super Smash. Too many openers. Too many spinners. 2 new players in the middle order and Devecich not converting prior international opportunities. Taylor and KW are getting more opportunities as proven class players.

So now Seifert and Chapman get their opportunities, and fair enough too. Bruce has just not kicked on when needed and Chapman was pushing for selection. Seifert would have been my option over Blundell for Philips anyway. Hesss just rated him after his test century on debut to see what he had for NZC teams. I get that.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:08 pm

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=11989876

Here is someone making sense:

Questions have been raised about New Zealand's Twenty 20 ethos after three consecutive defeats to Pakistan and Australia.
Should captain Kane Williamson be rested? Should coach Mike Hesson be replaced? Should internationals in the format be treated as a development arm of the game?

These points are worthy of debate but the answers, at least through these eyes, are no, no and no.

Up until the second loss to Pakistan on January 25, New Zealand were the No.1 ranked T20 side – they are now No.2 behind Pakistan.
Australia were No.7 but selections based on Big Bash League form proved justified in the seven-wicket win at the Sydney Cricket Ground on Saturday.
However, this is no time to panic. If anything, as selectors Hesson, Gavin Larsen - and before him Bruce Edgar – have shown, loyalty brings rewards if the appropriate homework is done on players' abilities.

One problem for the current side is a consistent failure to perform in Australia. New Zealand's last win there came in the 2011 Hobart test under the coaching reign of John Wright.In eight contests since - three tests, four one-day internationals including the World Cup final, and one T20 - their best was a draw in the 2015 Perth test.Visitors need time and/or experience to acclimatise to the Australian environment which, as generations of players will attest, is arguably the world's most brutal.Teams are bombarded by intimidation when they land, be it from the public, media, opposition, pitches, ground sizes or the country's cricketing pedigree.

Tactically, Williamson's place in the T20 order is a moot point. Ideally he should open where his strike rate (121) and average (38.52) in 27 T20 innings trumps seven outings at No.3 (strike rate 111 and average 21.66).Perhaps he could be switched with Colin Munro whose numbers at No.3 in 13 innings (strike rate 157, average 30.41) remain valuable compared to nine innings opening (strike rate 171, average 57).
The thought of New Zealand choosing to play without Williamson defies belief, unless they want to devalue the format. Yes, creeping to eight off 21 balls at the SCG was a poor look, but Australia weren't bowling pies. Just because he refuses to paste everything through cow-corner doesn't make him any less of a T20 batsman. Ask the Sunrisers Hyderabad, who bid $640,000 for his services in this season's Indian Premier League. His fielding, and potentially bowling, are also assets.

Besides, what's the alternative?

Is it preferable to drop Williamson, let New Zealand's batsmen tee off helter-skelter and get dismissed for the T20 equivalent of their test match worst 26 against England in 1955? That result saw them lampooned by the cricketing world for generations. A Plan B should always be accessible. Williamson provides that option better than anyone.

The thought of repositioning Hesson mid-contract also generates head-scratching.

He has signed to coach and select the New Zealand team across all formats until the 2019 World Cup.
The Black Caps have had unprecedented success under his watch. Arguments he is away from his family for sustained periods held weight in previous seasons – although no-one is forcing him to sign the contract – but last winter only held the Champions Trophy. The upcoming winter looks bereft of matches.

To address the final point, if selectors Hesson and Larsen chose to propagate players through T20s, surely that would dilute the credibility of the format and treats fans with disrespect.If people fork out hard-earned income to see the Black Caps, they deserve to see the best regardless of format.The Super Smash is the nest for development, otherwise international matches become meaningless.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:16 pm

Likely NZ team next match:

1 Guptill
2 Munro
3 KW
4 Chapman
5 Taylor
6 Seifert
7 CDG
8 Santner
9 Southee/Wheeler
10 Sodhi
11 Boult
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:16 am

And now the specialist T20 coach referred to by Doull has come out and said that T20 specialists are not required for coaching nor captain playing.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/1 ... th-hopkins

"They can absolutely adapt between formats of the game and improve on that," he said. "Having specialists for T20 doesn't say much because you have to look at the quality of the individual... You've got to remember that England and Australia has a much larger cricketing population, so you've got to pick the right players [for New Zealand]."


And if we're realistic about this, a lot of England's t20 core which is sans Root and Stokes at the moment have played tests or are still in the test frame, Hales, Morgan, Woakes, Rashid, Ali, Butler et al. Bairstow too when he plays t20.

Like Doull, I noticed that England freshened its odi team up after being beaten soundly in the Ashes and took down an Australian team with far more test players. I also noticed Australia trim a lot of those test players down during the series and in this t20 with a reversal in t20 results now. That is interesting. What it isn't is a blue print for NZC to follow when we don't have the same cattle that Aus and Eng do. And Steve Smith deserves a break more after a winter in India for a 4 test tour plus t20 and odi, Champs Trophy and Bangladesh test tour where he suffered some undesired results in the subcontinent despite proving himself throughout the year to be the best test batsman on the planet. Whereas KW just played some limited overs in India and the Champs trophy. Different workload schedules entirely. Plus KW's 2018 limited overs form is better than Smithy's who was by his own admission struggling in the England series to hit the ball of the square.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:03 am

I don't quite know what to make of this.

One of my big hopes for the summer was for Sean Solia to continue his stellar debut season form with the bat from last season.

He has not. He hasn't even gone past 50. With scores of 13, 29. 31 and 17 he will be well disappointed. What has changed, is that he is bowling useful seam ups now at 2nd and even 1st change; 2/30, 4/46; 1/43 and 1/34.

Now a cynic would say that there is nothing unusual about yet another bright Kiwi batting hope to lose his way with the bat and then use his medium bowling to further selection hopes. In fact, it is a fair list of past and present players. And Solia needs more runs. Well, he does. But if he continues to develop his bowling, maybe he could find a place in the NZ lower middle order instead of higher up in the NZ ODI batting order.

But I do hope that he makes some consistent runs soon.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:55 pm

T20 Tri Series

Australia has done NZ a favour by thrashing England. But not swift enough.

So NZ has to win 2 of its remaining 3 games, of which only 1 is against Australia to make the final. Australia has already qualified.

If NZ and England finish 1 win each, the finalist to play Australia will be decided by run rate, which leaves NZ in a spot of bother as they are behind England despite having only lost 1 game whereas England has lost 2.

NZ will need to thrash England once, and lose its reaming 2 games closely to get to the final with only 1 win.
Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsman
A third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.