Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:19 pm

I have heard that the number of legs a horse has in the air in a statue indicates how the rider died. According to what I have understood:

2 legs in the air: rider died in battle
1 leg in the air: rider died by wounds made in battle
0 legs in the air: rider died due to other reasons

Is this right???

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:47 pm

4 legs in the air, died of AIDS..

yesh that is true.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:29 pm

Flying horse shaped drone?

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:17 pm

Going South wrote:Flying horse shaped drone?


Don't be ridiculous. Drones are not horse shaped.

It is a clearly a Pegasus

Image.

Good wing span there, decent thrust.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:02 pm

naaa..you are getting too elaborate there.

It is summed up in 2 hindi lines very delicately..

Chitrakoot ki ghaat par, paach tang ka ghoda thaa
Chaar to uski tangen thi.. panchva us ka.. lo.... thaa.

Someone pliss translate.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Boycs » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:14 pm

It says "oh those of you who know how we suffer here, do not forget us in your prayers."

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Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:50 pm

Translation:
On a Moutan there is a donkey,
It got 4 legs and 5th one is its ........

That horse shaped drone is from future.
In 50 ears entire animals of earth would be ERADICATED by humans
So they end up with fantasy and make robots that look like them to teach next generation. Movies would be made about "horse" as billion dollar budget. It would exactly like how dinosaurs are treated today. That Pegasus you dream about is actually eradicated by our prior generation.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:56 pm

No.. chitrakoot is a fantacy forest/river.. and ghat is banks

So it says

Chitrakoot ki ghaat par.. or in the banks of chitrakoot
Panch tang ka ghodaa thaa.. there was a horse with 5 legs
Chaar to us ki tangen thi... Four were its actual legs
Pachvaa us ka love-daa thaa.. fifth was its dick..

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Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:57 pm

See. It's lost in translation. What's the lesson here? You wipe your own ass. Neither Hindi nor English is my mother tongue.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:03 pm

I was hoping our resident Hindi/urdu eggspert and old song lover.. Raja pai will grant a bit of his precious time and translate it.. but he just ignores me these days.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:04 pm

Striped Lungi wrote:I was hoping our resident Hindi/urdu eggspert and old song lover.. Raja pai will grant a bit of his precious time and translate it.. but he just ignores me these days.


Ever wonder why?
Hint: he does not like Arnab goswami either!

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:06 pm

Neither do I.. I hate AG.. he gives me a splitting headache

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:47 pm

So Canterbury have made the final and will play Central Districts.

Canterbury, down 4 wickets for 108 runs after 26 overs have advanced over Otago.

Otago quite unlucky there given Canterbury's batting line up - they looked to be on top.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:43 am

I thought we'd graduated from talking about the land of long white beards to horses.. but well apparently not..

BTW was watching IND/IRE U19.. this Anders bloke from IRE bowls at least 5000 times better than pissant.. anyone else agree?

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:45 am

BTW Paddles sent me a donation of 3 cents CF$.. I suspect fish here.. if it smells like fish, its gotta be a fish.. no?

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:17 am

Striped Lungi wrote:BTW Paddles sent me a donation of 3 cents CF$.. I suspect fish here.. if it smells like fish, its gotta be a fish.. no?


As I said, I merely thought you were a few cents short of a whole dollar, and I'm not prepared to take the time and effort to teach you how to fish.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:24 am

but if you give me 3 cents wont you then end up a few short of the whole dollar yourself ;)

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:27 am

btw.. I won't fish even if I become an eggspert at it. I am allergic to fish.. heck allergy to all sea food ecept crabs and calamari which I don't risk. I can end up battling the bucket in the ER if i eat sea food.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:42 am

Striped Lungi wrote:but if you give me 3 cents wont you then end up a few short of the whole dollar yourself ;)


Not at all.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:18 am

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/76442410/mcclenaghan-in-henry-out-of-black-caps-for-world-twenty20

So the squad is as predicted, with the difficult selection of only 4 seamers means that Matt Henry misses out, which was the logical decision.

New Zealand squad for World Twenty20: Kane Williamson (captain), Martin Guptill, Colin Munro, Ross Taylor, Grant Elliott, Henry Nicholls, Corey Anderson, Luke Ronchi, Mitchell Santner, Nathan McCullum, Adam Milne, Tim Southee, Trent Boult, Mitchell McClenaghan, Ish Sodhi.

I can still see either Tim or Trent pulling up lame before the end of the Australia tour, though.

Likely team:

Guptill
KW
Munro
Anderson
Taylor
Elliot
Ronchi/Nicholls
Santner
NMac/Sodhi/McLeakin
Milne
Southee/Boult
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:46 am

First ODI tomorrow of the highly anticipated World Cup final rematches. Faulkner expects scores of 350-400 to be scored. Australia will be targetting the straight boundary at Eden Park.

Australia: 1 David Warner, 2 Shaun Marsh, 3 Steve Smith, 4 George Bailey, 5 Glenn Maxwell, 6 Mitch Marsh, 7 Matthew Wade, 8 James Faulkner, 9 John Hastings, 10 Kane Richardson, 11 Josh Hazlewood

NZ: 1 Martin Guptill, 2 Brendom McCullum, 3 Kane Williamson, 4 Henry Nicholls (NZ without its best batsman for the last year in this format according to the ICC in Ross "the boss" Taylor,
5 Grunter Elliot, 6 Corey Anderson, 7 Luke "so out of form" Ronchi, 8 Mitchell Santner, 9 Adam 'wheels" Milne, 10 Matt Henry, 11 Trent "used to swing it" Boult; with Ish Sodhi a surprise last minute call up who may squeeze into the XI due to Eden Park pitch turning. (That or they want to give him some big crowd experience in a friendly environment before WCT20 in India.)

Southee is injured, so is Mitchell McCleanaghan. Doug Bracewell in the squad but unlikely to play first game unless injury, as are Tom Latham and Colin Munro.

I'd be tipping NZ if Ross Taylor wasn't injured (but Munro could yet be called up). Boult is bowling crap, NZ missing two of its best bowlers (but Australia playing Hastings and RIchardson) and Anderson thus has a chance to shine. Smart money has Australia fairly as red hot favourites. But NZ have not lost a series at home in a while now.

Would love to see Munro get a crack at Australia in the top order at some stage this series (which may mean Nicholls keeping, Ronchi being dropped and Colin sliding on in).
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:09 pm

Another series win for New Zealand in the pyjamas.

Continuing their impressive run of results with home ground advantage.

Congrats to Mike Hesson.

Bold move to rest Boult today and not play him. Sodhi was an inspired choice, too.

Now to the tests, where Nicholls, if he succeeds, must be seen as a surprise.

Likely line up:

Latham
Guptill
KW
Nicholls (Taylor injured)
McCullum
Anderson
Watling
Santner
Bracewell/Henry
Southee
Boult

The selectors may gamble on including Henry/Bracewell, Sodhi or Wagner depending on pitch conditions.

To bat Santner at 6 with no Anderson, with Nicholls at 4 and BMac at 5, with Watling returning from injury to have Bracewell and Henry at 8 and 9 does seem like quite some gamble. But it is on the cards.

I just hope if Henry is selected, that he leaves the short stuff behind and pitches up looking for seam movement - because that has been the cause of his success in ODI this year. I personally would strengthen the batting than the bowling given Taylor's injury.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:14 pm

Which one is more boring ?
India vs Lanka
Or
Australia vs newzealand ???

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:55 am

India play Sri Lanka every five minutes. Australia play New Zealand every five years. I know which matchup I'm more sick of seeing.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:04 am

So Mitchell Santner is injured, and Mark Craig returns to the squad, in from out in the cold.

The Australian batsman took a liking to his servings on the recent tour, but Craig has been able to do something significant this summer. Play a full List A season for Otago - where while he was not in the wickets, was able to bowl economically. There was nothing wrong with Craig's SR for a spinner, but his economy rate was terrible and this had a great impact on his average. In first innings, where he could not get spin, he was unable to bowl overs cheaply. Hopefully, a summer of LIst A cricket (he still has only played 19 matches in total) now gives him a better grounding to bowl economically in the first innings if he plays.

Assuming NZ want to play a spinner, the issue will be who also bowls with Tim and Trent given the batting is weaker without Ross Taylor. Corey Anderson did not light up the Australian bowlers, but he remains the likely choice to bat 6, leaving Henry (poor test record but great home pyjama's summer) fighting with Wagner (hero of the last test match) and Doug Bracewell (just got the place in the team back ahead of Wagner and Henry).

Latham
Guptill
Williamson
Niccolls
McCullum
Anderson
Watling
Craig/Bracewell
Henry/Wagner
Southee
Boult

Wellington has a stiff breeze that normally Neil Wagner bowls into. The temptation to play Henry will be very great since he has troubled the Australian batsman throughout the ODI series. Basically, there will be a fan backlash if he is not selected. Hesson has made tough decisions before, but he likes form players, too. If Craig plays, there will be 2 unlucky bowlers. With Taylor's injury, the temptation to play Anderson will be increased. Given his 140km/h bowling against Australia in the last match, and the need to play some extra batting, NZ will not be keen for a bowler to bat at 7 and have a 5 prong seam attack, or a 4 seam and 1 spin attack.

Henry's recent form and Santner's injury makes a further tough decision of what was already difficult between Bracewell and Wagner. The plan was presumably to have Anderson at 6, Santner at 8 and Wagner or Bracewell at 9 to go with Tim and Trent. Injuries to Taylor and now Santner make it a tough call for the selectors to get the balance right.

Here is hoping they do pick the right formula.

Image
Last edited by Paddles on Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:30 am

What are they searching so intently on the pitch? Someone lost their marbles?

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Boycs » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:07 am

"I'm gonna try and hit this grass blade here to get some deviation"

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:05 am

And somewhat surprisingly, Hesson has not recalled Matt Henry. Either way, it was going to be tough for Wagner, Craig, Bracewell and Henry when only 2 could play.

Martin Guptill
Tom Latham
Kane Williamson
Henry Nicholls
Brendon McCullum
Corey Anderson
BJ Watling
Mark Craig
Doug Bracewell
Tim Southee
Trent Boult

Australia have a surprise of their own:

David Warner
Joe Burns
Usman Khawaja
Steve Smith
Adam Voges
Mitch Marsh
Peter Nevill
Peter Siddle
Josh Hazlewood
Nathan Lyon
Jackson Bird

They've left out James Pattinson and preferred Jackson Bird and Peter Siddle to him. Big call. With the pitch as green as it is, they must be thinking a war of attrition on runs as the wickets will fall regardless.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:29 am

Australia are actually thinking that Pattinson is still not match fit, they said so at the press conference. This leaves their bowling lineup looking pretty samey. Also that batting lineup is a little short on ability to play well on difficult pitches. I miss Rogers.

NZ look pretty weak batting wise without Taylor, batting deep doesn't make up for the lack of quality. At least Watling is fit and the pace attack is the better of the two sides.

If this is anything like the last few years here then the only time the pitch does anything is day 1. This means that losing the toss probably means you're playing for the draw.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:41 am

GiantScrub wrote:Australia are actually thinking that Pattinson is still not match fit, they said so at the press conference. This leaves their bowling lineup looking pretty samey. Also that batting lineup is a little short on ability to play well on difficult pitches. I miss Rogers.

NZ look pretty weak batting wise without Taylor, batting deep doesn't make up for the lack of quality. At least Watling is fit and the pace attack is the better of the two sides.

If this is anything like the last few years here then the only time the pitch does anything is day 1. This means that losing the toss probably means you're playing for the draw.


I find your post quite astute.

Without Taylor, 4 to 6 in the NZ line up is a very big weakness. And at the top, Guptill has a terrible test record, that gets even worse against Straya. But he has finally scored ODI runs against Australia, so he may have some confidence to go with home summer. But he had stage fright in Australia earlier this season.

Pattinson, I think, is the next best all conditions bowler to Dale Steyn. I think he can blow teams apart in a Broad like manner on the scorecard, but actually get the batsmen out himself. But it does appear, that his career could be a Shane Bond replica. I'm almost sad as a Kiwi fan, because I really enjoy watching Pattinson bowl. It is an absolute pleasure. From his in swingers, to his leg nippers off the seam, and outswing with the new ball, his pace, his short balls, he is just always at the batsman with wicket taking deliveries. A great foil to Hazelwood.

That said, while the attack is 'samey', Bird, Hazelwood and Siddle will starve KW of runs with a stacked offside field in close and nothing short to pull. Pattinson would let some runs go through mid wicket, but those 3 can be ultra disciplined and let the pitch and the swing get the wickets for them. BJ is out of form, so I reckon Australia would only be concerned about KW batting time against them. They'll be thinking how best to repeat Adelaide and get NZ out for small totals.

That said, the pitch may only be dangerous for the first day. Crucial toss to insert the opposition in, but when Sri Lanka did it last, they lost as NZ got the best batting conditions on days 3 and 4. India got a draw with a McCullum tripple - again - best batting conditions went to the team who had the worst first innings conditions.

So whoever is on top on day 1, needs to stay hungry because it will not necessarily be a cruise to victory from there, job.

Southee is back from injury, and Boult needs to find his swing. I suspect he will do so, despite not swinging a ball in NZ all summer. The seam has been straight, just angled on release. I think his wrist may be bolt (excuse the pun) upright if he bowls tomorrow. At least I hope so, as his career will slide if not.

Just one comment on your post and I agree with your point, but I just comment thatl batting shallow without quality < batting deep without quality. Santner will have batted at 8, averaging 78 across all forms against Straya, so the NZ batting is not as deep as they'd like. Doug B can play straight and that has given him an edge over Wagner and possibly Henry too (Henry is also not a third seamer - he needs a new ball, not an old ball running into the wind).
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:18 am

Regarding batting depth - sure. That's also why Mark Craig has been selected despite his unparalleled ability to bowl tasty, tasty pies. They'd have been looking for reasons to pick any other spinner if they didn't also need a number 8.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:41 am

Striped Lungi wrote:What are they searching so intently on the pitch? Someone lost their marbles?


looking for Billy's contact lens

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:29 am

GiantScrub wrote:Regarding batting depth - sure. That's also why Mark Craig has been selected despite his unparalleled ability to bowl tasty, tasty pies. They'd have been looking for reasons to pick any other spinner if they didn't also need a number 8.


Well this isn't as astute as your earlier post and displays, with respect, that you did not follow or look at the NZ v Sri Lanka scorecards. If you did, you would see that Bracewell batted at 8. if you have a gander at Bracewell's cricinfo stats, you will see career progression as a batsman. Open up some domestic scorecards and you will see him batting high up in the order at 6 and 7.

If you know much about Wellington then you know one thing. It is windy. A spinner bowling into the breeze is useful. Now Craig, for all his faults, was plucked out of NZC early after club cricket, and never got any real List A experience. This summer he got a fair ammount of List A games while out of the test team (and never in the pyjama team). This will hopefully enable him to bowl more tightly in the first innings if there is no assistance for him, instead of floating the ball up with a rip, for it to come off the pitch steak and cheese flavoured. Due to pathetic NZ sports broadcasting, I have not seen how he was bowling economically in the list A, it may have been that he took the approach more likened to Phil "the Power" Taylor and just kept aiming for the tripple 20 as the crow flies than that of Saqlain Mushtaq.

Either way, if NZ bat first, Hesson and McCullum want a spinner for day 5.If no other reason than this:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/749779.html or another swinging pitch, this time in England,

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/743941.html

If an out and out batting option was preferred for the spinner to replace Santner, I am fairly certain Hesson would have recalled:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/player/213674.html

You could argue that Craig's numbers compare with the bat. Astle's batting has developed over time for him to be an allrounder. He is the better batsman, domestically anyway.

I do not think Craig's batting really gives him much of an edge over Sodhi or Henry for that matter, who are useful tail enders, where Sodhi looks to occupy and Henry tries to hit the leather off the ball. Craig has trolled some good innings, and it is a feather in his cap if he can continue with them. But Santner is expected by the expert to develop his batting far beyond anything Craig can keep up with over time. Santner can bowl economically, and all day, but he is not a genuine wicket taker just yet. Craig can be on day 5.

So, Craig, who had his career cut short by Santner, has a chance to get it going again with Santner injured. While a spinner was wanted, Astle would have been the allrounder replacement for Santner if batting the priority. Because Bracewell already gives more batting than Wagner or Henry and is the more economical of those bowlers, they've gone with the spinner who can give it a rip, even if he has failed to bowl overspin so far. They've hedged their bets, instead of choosing the best batsman bowlers.

Astle
Milne
Bracewell
Southee/Henry

interesting bowling line up should they choose to stack batting in the future - I must say.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:00 am

Come on. Craig was not picked purely on the strength of his bowling, because it's impossible to pick Craig purely on the strength of his bowling. I can't look up stats on my phone, because cricinfo's new site design is awful, but the last time I looked Craig's FC and test averages were both well north of 40. I find it very difficult to believe that this level of performance gets you in the conversation for any national team as the premier spinner rather than a spinning allrounder.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:16 am

GiantScrub wrote:Come on. Craig was not picked purely on the strength of his bowling, because it's impossible to pick Craig purely on the strength of his bowling. I can't look up stats on my phone, because cricinfo's new site design is awful, but the last time I looked Craig's FC and test averages were both well north of 40. I find it very difficult to believe that this level of performance gets you in the conversation for any national team as the premier spinner rather than a spinning allrounder.


That is the problem with merely looking at bowling averages.

Harbhajan Singh averages 32.46. Mark Craig 44.21.

Craig's SR is 69. Harbhajan Singh is 68.5.

Craig gets wickets. The problem is he gives up so many runs in getting those wickets. In the fourth innings, where the value of a spinner comes to the fore, Craig averages 25.75 at a SR of 44.75. Singh is 28.75 but at a SR of 68.9. Who wins the most games on day 5? Craig or Singh? Believe it or not, it is comfortably Craig. He has Lyon more than covered on a 4th innings comparison too. Unfortunately for Craig, there are 4 days of cricket before day 5.

This should tell you that Craig has an economy rate problem. And he does. 3.84 runs per over. Singh is 2.84 runs per over.

Daniel Vettori for the last 8 years of his career barely turned the ball off the pitch. But was incredibly economical. But NZ would be left not able to bowl sides out on the last day and they would stave off for a draw, often to then win the series against NZ. Santner is a Vettori 2.0. Economical spin bowling and genuine allround batting to be developed. The plan is, because he does not have Vettori's injuries, is to develop his wicket taking ability with some rip.

Craig has won matches in the UAE, West Indies, and NZ with his spin. Even Leeds he was a big part of the victory on the last day. The problem has been his economy on days 1 through 3, even 4, before the foot marks are there for him to turn it sideways (yes sideways - he cuts the ball far more square than Lyon ever could, but he has not not over spin the ball like Lyon can and does well on days 1 through 3, meaning dip and bounce that beat the batsman both in flight as it drops variably early and off the pitch as it bounces variably higher - for the record over spin is much harder to bowl and made Murali amazing).

So think as you will that Craig is not a day 5 threat. But you'd need to convince some Sri Lankan, Pakistani, English and West Indian batsman of this, who will beg to differ. Once he finds Boult and Anderson's foot marks, lethal.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Boycs » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:46 am

Much smaller sample size for stats though compared to baji with his 100+ tests

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:56 am

SGGH wrote:Much smaller sample size for stats though compared to baji with his 100+ tests


Granted.

The point remains, Craig has an appalling bowling average but nevertheless he has been a massive contributor to about 4 tests wins with his bowling in his 13 matches.

That is primarily why he got selected. He can jag wickets, but he just gave up soooooo many runs in the first few days of a test. Unless it is a burner in the West Indies.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:15 am

Actually why haven't they picked Astle? His domestic record is excellent for NZ and his strike rate is great for a spinner.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:50 am

GiantScrub wrote:Actually why haven't they picked Astle? His domestic record is excellent for NZ and his strike rate is great for a spinner.


Pecking order for one.

Tastle got a go in 2 T20s against Pakistan this summer (T20 is not his format, red ball is, then 50 over) but Pakistan fancied his servings.

KW refused to bowl him after 1 over in the 2nd T20.

He may yet tour India for tests if he has big finish to the summer in domestic.

I'm impressed that an Aussie like yourself follows the fringe NZ talent.

There is a T20 blaster to look out for in the future by the name of Tom Bruce. Might come to nothing, but the wraps are growing. Quit rugby (Was in Cantabury 2nd XV as a first five, so safe to say that he can play ruggers) to chase the T20 dream. Is in the CPT20 draft - I doubt he will get picked up but if he does, then someone is making a smart albeit small investment.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/player/707113.html

He is working hard on his off spin - a handy skill for an IPL dreamer. He could set the tone for the future. Cricket pathways in NZ can exceed domestic rugby if players get to the T20 circuit level. BMac comfortably outearns Richie McCaw and Dan Carter. This is a big deal in NZ where the likes of Jeff Wilson previously chose rugby regardless. Now there is a choice for talented players. And in Bruce's case, return to cricket at 22/23 after pursuing rugby first. Anyway, he is nowhere near the national team at the moment, but watch out for him. ;) Scott Kugelijn http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/player/539548.htmlis one I keep tabs on to see what progress he is making as a possible third seamer in tests who can bat well. He has some off field dramas at the moment, but seems to be having a good season.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:15 am

First Day Wellington. Another green road where the ball seams for 2.5 hours and then turns into a state highway.

Would have had Australia by a smidgen in front if not for the worst no ball call to a fair delivery for the lucky recipient, the Don Voges.

So Australia, still comfortably ahead, paying $1.30 may have got the message through to NZ cricket. Stop preparing these pitches expecting the opposition to bat first. Three times in a row at the basin, NZ have lost the toss and batted first. The next coin toss will still be a 50-50, not a 75-25.

Hopefully there is some cloud cover in the morning, the innings wraps up with less than 100 runs lead to the bad guys, and NZ's Latham, Williamson, McCullum and Watling put up a score of 450 minimum.

And by the way, Boult is still not swinging it. His pace is back and creeping over 140 from mid to late 130's - but he was bowling deliveries straight as a dye.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:03 pm

I don't really follow NZ domestic cricket, I have colleagues who do and they tell me who's good. In addition to Astle and Kuggeleijn, I hear there is this armada of brothers Cachopa, some or all of which might be OK one day.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:02 am

GiantScrub wrote:I don't really follow NZ domestic cricket, I have colleagues who do and they tell me who's good. In addition to Astle and Kuggeleijn, I hear there is this armada of brothers Cachopa, some or all of which might be OK one day.

Cachopas are miles off.

The best one, Craig, took a full time county contract turning back on NZ trialling. Has not fired like he did at career start and average is slipping. May have lost his county deal. Carl did not play this summer, and I suspect his bowling figures flatter him else he'd be bowling more. He only played Sussex 2nds last winter. Brad is just another keeper bat, nothing special. They're not our reply to the Waugh's, Chappell's or a new Hadlee family.

They're handy to quality FC cricketers but not on the track to be regular internationals one day, just yet. Need more consistency.

Current U19 Glen Philips is a keeper batsman with star potential.

Ben Smith is getting close to the team. Will Young is dropping down the pecking order with a bad season. Same for Jeet Raval, and M Bracewell last season.

Wonderkid allrounder Sean Hicks is yet to fly in FC and could be overtaken by U19 Leopard. Mark Chapman has generated interest in future development. Ryder is still dominant domestically. But then so is Munro.

Be mad if Rutherford is recalled ahead of Smith, or Raval for that matter. Shame Ryder won't be getting Bmac's spot. After NZ tour of India later in the year, Dean Brownlie must come into a chance of playing again (loves seamers, runs against Aus and SA, but hates spinners).
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:11 am

Mark Craig bowling figures: 2 for 153 off 35 overs.
Mark Craig batting figures: 74 runs for out no times.

:)

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:44 am

GiantScrub wrote:Mark Craig bowling figures: 2 for 153 off 35 overs.
Mark Craig batting figures: 74 runs for out no times.

:)


Heh.

Well if he going to play as a batsman, he needs to bat higher in the order, and score more than 74 runs in the match.

Personally, I fear he looks more the test batsman than either Anderson (#6) or McCullum (#5) and plays straighter than Nicholls (#4). Even tackled the new ball without any overt concerns. Played as gracefully as any Tom Latham innings start. Without the dismissal at the end.

Ironically his batting caught the eye of a former ordinary FC spinner who became a useful test specialist batsman in Mark Richardson. Craig is 28, so if he going to make a career change, he needs to do it sooner rather than later.

But yeah, unfortunately, he does look like he has better credentials to be in the top half of the batting innings, than in the tail.

But he was selected to take bowl first and foremost, so despite his good batting (again), this test match was another failure for him.

Despite those runs, he will have his neck on the chopping block if Santner is fit (unless they play two spinners). He'd be quite lucky either way to play the next test match. Australian batsmen do not have respect for his bowling, at all.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:56 am

Craig's problem if he decides to challenge for the batting allrounder spot is that NZ has 2674896837261 options for that slot. Santner, Anderson, Neesham, even Todd Astle... that's a long pecking order ahead of him. He'll probably suffer the same fate as Ashton Agar, like you say - if you get picked as a spinner, you need to bowl better than that.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:21 pm

That is really sweet of you to say to Neesham and Anderson.

But given Neesham is terrible on a turning pitch, and Anderson cannot drive along the ground, neither of those 2 have any business batting at 6 in a test cricket side. Mark Craig looks, without doubt, more a specialist test batsman than any of Niccholls, McCullum or Anderson. He can trust his defence unlike McCullum and can drive (unlike Nicholls) along the ground (unlike Anderson). Despite being a tail ender with not outs, this helps him out average those far ahead of him in the batting order.

Furthermore, neither of those 2 have really been that effective with the ball, despite Corey's ninja caught and bowled this test.

Santner has no FC credentials to be in the team, but picked on both talent potential and a case noone else, and he has made the most of his opportunities at international level, and that has to be respected. Ideally he would bat 8, but given the calm composure he displayed against both good Pakistani and Australian bowlers in limited overs cricket, and his Adelaide runs, he looks like there is something worth developing there. His E/R rate is pleasing too, unlike Craig's, but his ability on day to spin a win is not known at all. So there will possibly be times he will be required to bat 6, with three seamers, and another spinner (unless its Tastle batting at 6). If Sodhi is recalled, he bats below Santner.

NZ test cricket needs a clearout, there is some luggage in the team that is weighing it down lacking form and potential, Santner has earnt more development time to prove himself. No doubt. Anderson and Neesham are passengers at 6, Ryder and Munro are all far better alternatives despite one liking a drink and the other liking to hit a 6 when he feels like it. Them, with a developing Santner at 8, the batting line up suddenly looks a heck of a lot stronger:

Guptill/Raval/Smith
Latham
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder (5)
Munro/Bruce (6) (Bruce is clearly me day dreaming about future potential and is no way near selection just yet - but what a dream!)
Watling (+)
Santner (8)
Wagner (9)
Southee (10)
Boult (11)
Henry (12)

Rotate Boult and Southee with Henry as workloads require if Henry can finally carry over his new ball odi bowling into test cricket. That is a big if. He has failed so far.

Of course, Hesson would need some really big balls to pick this side. But it is about as strong as NZ could potentially be.

If Henry Nicholls cannot score to mid off and mid on, he cannot play as a top 4 test batsman. End of. Apparently he is a decent wicket keeper, if he cannot drive, he should think about keeping more often.

I do not understand how McCullum can play 49 tests as a specialist batsman, but Munro is discarded because he scores runs in 6's with his other shots. I'd give him 4 tests in ZImbabwe and Safrica and say - you have an opportunity away from home to show us whether you belong in test cricket. Heck - I'd be tempted to play him in India to boot, he likes slaughtering spinners.

If FC is the pathway to test cricket, Munro has enough runs on the board to be given a fair go. It is unlikely, but he could be the next Viv RIchards or Adam GIlchrist with the bat. How will anyone know, when they keep picking Corey Anderson in that role (when Colin has outshone him at every level with the bat so far).

Munro's continued exclusion from getting real opportunities makes laughing stock of the NZ first class scene. He was finally given a go at the top of the order in T20, and he killed it. Both Sri Lanka and Pakistan have already seen enough of him for their liking as he smashed NZ records. It is a long way from T20 to tests, but just look at his FC record, and compare it to Neesham, Anderson or Santner for that matter. It is ridiculous.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/player/232359.html

To cap it off, he made runs on the NZA list A tour in Sri Lanka where the likes of Grant Elliot failed. i have nothing against Grunter, but I am irked that Munro is not given a fair go in the national side.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:29 am

Finally the NZ media has picked up on one of the biggest problems facing the NZ test team:

"Allrounders" batting at 6.

Wagner's mysterious dropping is also analysed. But to be fair - Henry's limited overs form did warrant a trialling in test matches at some point. But it would appear that members of the media have had enough of Bracewell. My views that Wagner should not have been dropped for Bracewell appear earlier in this thread - I was angry that he did not play in Australia. As do my complaints about number 6. Perhaps if I and the media can see some of the problems, Hesson will be able in time too. While Bracewell never deserved to be there ahead of Wagner, he did dupe people that he was improving with both bat and ball, so once there, a continued experiment seemed viable. So a lot of us were suckered in that his continued selection was not a bad call.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11590957
Perhaps Neil Wagner thought it would be hilarious to put trainer wheels on coach Mike Hesson's bike. Who knows, maybe he put Deep Heat in Brendon McCullum's jockstrap or talcum powder in Tim Southee's blowdryer.

Whatever he did, he should have apologised so we could have avoided the ridiculous situation of him having been omitted from all four tests against Australia this season.

Wagner's rejection from an under-performing New Zealand team is just plain weird. You want to know the results of the last 10 tests New Zealand has played with Wagner in the team? Good, I'm just the person to tell you. They have won seven and drawn three. You don't need to be Alan Turing to work out that doesn't leave any room for losses.

What about the last 10 tests New Zealand have played without Wagner? Glad you asked and I can help you there. Drawn two, won three, lost... five.

I can see some of you at the back of the class with your hands in the air dying to point out that Wagner didn't play Australia and therefore the numbers are skewed.


Chicken, allow me to introduce you to egg, or vice versa.

With Doug Bracewell's injury, there is a chance for the wrong to be righted.

The bustling Wagner is the dose of aggression to add to what has become a largely passive Black Cap attack. All muscle and thunder, the South African-born left-armer can bowl some utter tripe, whole spells of it at times, but at least he does it with feeling.

It would have been nice to watch him come around the wicket at the Basin, get wide on the crease and bump the bejaysus out of Usman Khawaja and Adam Voges for a spell.

Even leaving aside the fact he has takes wickets more often and less expensively than the preferred Bracewell, Wagner has the intangible effect of making those around him play better.

Continuing to leave him out was starting to suggest it wasn't a cricket selection, but something more mysterious. If that's the case then it's a joke - a bad one.

***

I don't subscribe to the knee-jerk theories put forward that the result in Wellington was a case of systemic failure; a case of umpire failure (though Dick Illingworth didn't help, he didn't cost a series like Nigel 'It Could Have Come from Anything' Llong); or, most laughably, a case of a team taking their eye off the ball while celebrating their captain's career.

It was simply, and even more disturbingly, a case of too many individuals being horribly, catastrophically out of form and if you look at the numbers, it's a wonder they beat Sri Lanka, let alone Straya.

To wit:

McCullum's test batting decline from December 2014 to now (435 runs at 27.2) is well documented. I'd need director of cricket Lindsay Crocker to take a polygraph test to convince me that McCullum wasn't strong-armed into extending his career beyond Leeds to protect a new captain, probably Kane Williamson, from starting their tenure with home-and-away series against Australia.

McCullum plays best when he defends straight and at the moment he's defending to cover and midwicket, the latter technique costing him his wicket twice in Wellington.

Although he is used to accepting the role as public punching bag, he is far from alone in his woes. Some of his vaunted teammates have been searingly awful.

The top four, even taking into account the collapse on the Basin's first-morning greensward, get a pass mark, with the qualification that Guptill's summer average of 33.2 drops to an anaemic 18.1 versus Australia.

Beyond McCullum, there are black holes of productivity at No 6 and 7.

The allrounders position at No 6 has been filled by four players - Jimmy Neesham (Brisbane), BJ Watling (Perth), Mitchell Santner (Adelaide, Dunedin and Hamilton) and Corey Anderson (Wellington). Just 175 runs have been scored in the position at a woeful average of 17.5; the nine wickets have cost 41.7.

This position is heavily in deficit.

Watling, who apart from Perth bats at No 7, has become the most inexplicable case. Renowned for his heady batting in a crisis, the wicketkeeper has been a shell of himself, scoring a meagre 156 runs at 17.3 and looks to be clueless against offspinner Nathan Lyon.

You want to get a sense with your bowling and wicketkeeping allrounders that you can't keep them out of the game; New Zealand haven't been able to get theirs into the game.

But don't think the bowlers are getting a free pass.

Look at Southee, the bowling leader. At first glance his 21 test wickets at 31.5 looks like a reasonable return. At second glance, his eight wickets against Australia at 56.3 looks weak as water.

His new-ball partner Trent Boult has also taken 21 test wickets this summer, at an adequate 37.2. His figures have held up reasonably well against Australia - 15 at 39.3 - but it's hardly strike bowler output.

But don't worry, coming on at first change we have Bracewell, whose 14 wickets this summer have cost 49.6; whose nine against Australia cost 55.

You can put any spin on it you want, but that's an ordinary return from your first-choice seamers.

Which brings us to actual spin. Cripes.

Perhaps the kindest thing you could say is Mark Craig batted very well in Wellington. The unkindest thing would be that Australia are praying for his continued selection. His 10 test wickets this summer have cost 666 runs. You do the math.

It adds up to a combustible failure of form and the problem with the way the game is structured is that there are few options to find form. Instead we have out-of-form bowlers bowling to out-of-form batsmen in net sessions that are as useful as a three-legged racehorse.

The Black Caps came into this summer on the back of a few years of unparalleled success in long-form cricket, but when Hesson pulled the Camaro out of the garage this summer only a couple of cylinders were firing.

Which makes Wagner's omission this summer all the more inexplicable. He's never had the chance to succeed against Australia, but nor has he hopelessly failed either. At the moment, that sad fact alone puts him ahead of the incumbents.


Not sure ona Wagner bump a thon against Khwaja who plays off the back foot well and to Voges who grew up on Waca pitches and bowlers like Mitch Johnson.
Last edited by Paddles on Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:24 am

so "Allrounders" batting at 6 was the difference between the two sides :punter4:

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:35 am

Katto wrote:so "Allrounders" batting at 6 was the difference between the two sides :punter4:


Was it too long for you to read past the first few lines?

Did you get past the first sentence before posting in reply?
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:39 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:so "Allrounders" batting at 6 was the difference between the two sides :punter4:


Was it too long for you to read past the first few lines?


Yep. I get bored easily.
Try to be more succinct or highlight the important passages. Life is short.