Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:10 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Was it too long for you to read past the first few lines?


Yep. I get bored easily.
Try to be more succinct or highlight the important passages. Life is short.


If you are unable to read past the first sentence, I don't that highlighting subsequent sentences will really help much at all.

I am just amazed that you'd reply at all, let alone so aggressively, after reading only one sentence.

And for that reply to suggest that my writing of "one of the biggest problems" meant something more to you like "the [only] difference between the two sides", I will find it quite hard to write abridged material for your level of comprehension in a single sentence.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:21 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
Yep. I get bored easily.
Try to be more succinct or highlight the important passages. Life is short.


If you are unable to read past the first sentence, I don't that highlighting subsequent sentences will really help much at all.

I am just amazed that you'd reply at all, let alone so aggressively, after reading only one sentence.

And for that reply to suggest that my writing of "one of the biggest problems" meant something more to you like "the [only] difference between the two sides", I will find it quite hard to write abridged material for your level of comprehension in a single sentence.


aggressively? where have I been aggressive?
you on the other hand have made it personal

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:34 am

Katto wrote:aggressively? where have I been aggressive?


Right here:

Katto wrote:so "Allrounders" batting at 6 was the difference between the two sides :punter4:


Katto wrote:you on the other hand have made it personal


That was inevitable after this post where you brought your personal attributes into why you only read one sentence, which you also managed to comprehend incorrectly which was: "Finally the NZ media has picked up on one of the biggest problems facing the NZ test team: "Allrounders" batting at 6."

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Was it too long for you to read past the first few lines?


Yep. I get bored easily.
Try to be more succinct or highlight the important passages. Life is short.


I cannot be bothered with a flame war on the internet on this site. But I will nevertheless call a spade a spade.

Go in peace Katto.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:59 am

Katto wrote:so "Allrounders" batting at 6 was the difference between the two sides :punter4:


this is what you call aggressive?

wow what a crybully

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:29 am

Katto wrote:
Katto wrote:so "Allrounders" batting at 6 was the difference between the two sides :punter4:


this is what you call aggressive?

wow what a crybully


Yes. Aggressive. But far short of "bullying" and I am in no way 'crybullying', although you arguably are now yourself, but I will not make that claim against you. You probably would not realise the potential aggressiveness of your reply post when you did not read past the first sentence and incorrectly comprehended the first and sole sentence that you did read. So, you possibly have no idea that your reply post was indeed aggressive or likely to be interpreted in such a manner.

I have no issue with aggressive reply posts, as long as they have comprehended the original post, let alone the first sentence, correctly.

But to aggressively reply after reading only one sentence, and not comprehending that one sentence you did read that was written in plain English, amazes me for the sheer stupidity of it all. No offence intended. We all have our off days. But this one was pretty bad.

Go in peace Katto. There is no salvaging this situation for you. You admitted that you read only one sentence of the original post, and that one sentence you did read, you failed to comprehend accurately as demonstrated by your original reply post.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:51 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
this is what you call aggressive?

wow what a crybully


Yes. Aggressive. But far short of "bullying" and I am in no way 'crybullying', although you arguably are now yourself, but I will not make that claim against you. You probably would not realise the potential aggressiveness of your reply post when you did not read past the first sentence and incorrectly comprehended the first and sole sentence that you did read. So, you possibly have no idea that your reply post was indeed aggressive or likely to be interpreted in such a manner.

I have no issue with aggressive reply posts, as long as they have comprehended the original post, let alone the first sentence, correctly.

But to aggressively reply after reading only one sentence, and not comprehending that one sentence you did read that was written in plain English, amazes me for the sheer stupidity of it all. No offence intended. We all have our off days. But this one was pretty bad.

Go in peace Katto. There is no salvaging this situation for you. You admitted that you read only one sentence of the original post, and that one sentence you did read, you failed to comprehend accurately as demonstrated by your original reply post.


Who said I was even referring to you with my original post?

Another one is born every minute. :roll:

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:56 am

Katto wrote:Who said I was even referring to you with my original post?

Another one is born every minute. :roll:


You did.

Right here:

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Was it too long for you to read past the first few lines?


Yep. I get bored easily.
Try to be more succinct or highlight the important passages. Life is short.


As I say, there is no salvaging this situation for you Katto.

You can either put it down to a bad day, or dig yourself a bigger hole, I am not fussed either way, but I do suggest that you go in peace, before people confirm that you were indeed born this way, and that this thread is not merely indicative of a bad day for you.
Last edited by Paddles on Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:58 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:Who said I was even referring to you with my original post?

Another one is born every minute. :roll:


You did.

Right here:

Katto wrote:
Yep. I get bored easily.
Try to be more succinct or highlight the important passages. Life is short.


As I say, there is no salvaging this situation for you Katto.

You can either put it down to a bad day, or dig yourself a bigger hole, I am not fussed either way, but I do suggest that you go in peace, before people confirm that you were indeed born obtuse and stupid, and that it is not merely a bad day for you.


You seem to have an issue with comprehension. Not my problem.
You're trying to create one though.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:04 am

Katto wrote:You seem to have an issue with comprehension. Not my problem.
You're trying to create one though.


My comprehension skills are just fine Katto, and in no way can be questioned in this thread.

You on the other hand cannot comprehend that:

Paddles wrote:Finally the NZ media has picked up on one of the biggest problems facing the NZ test team:

"Allrounders" batting at 6.


does not lead to the this conclusion:

Katto wrote:so "Allrounders" batting at 6 was the difference between the two sides :punter4:


I will let you go in peace. But you seem determined to have the final word. You were wrong. You read one line. Guessed that to be the sum total of the context, incorrectly, and that one line you did read, you comprehended incorrectly. You made a fool of yourself. By dragging this out, you just continue to make an even bigger fool of yourself.

I do not mind if you want to dig yourself a bigger hole. But I suggest you cease. There is no way to salvage this situation for you. You admitted that you read one sentence only. You clearly did not comprehend that single sentence. Your denials now after previous admissions, are pathetic - no offence intended.

Go in peace Katto.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:12 am

what nutcase :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:19 am

Katto wrote:what nutcase :lol: :lol: :lol:


Seriously, rather than going in peace, you want to engage in name calling?

Just take a second to think what exactly is your mental age Katto. Is it no more developed than your reading and comprehension level as indicated by this thread?

Just go in peace. You made 2 mistakes, not reading a post past the first sentence, and not accurately comprehending that sole said sentence. Everything you have posted since then should be of embarrassment to you. Especially an attempted denial of who and what you reply was aimed at. It is pathetic. It is childish.

Be mature. You made mistakes. There is no way to save face in this thread. Go in peace.
Last edited by Paddles on Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Verity » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:19 am

before people confirm that you were indeed born this way, and that this thread is not merely indicative of a bad day for you.


:lmao:
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:23 am

I think Paddles has dropped one of his oars in the water. He's in a complete spin :lol:

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Verity » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:26 am

I don't even know what you's are on about but I can't be bothered going back and reading it :lol:
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:30 am

Verity wrote:I don't even know what you's are on about but I can't be bothered going back and reading it :lol:


Life is too short :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:32 am

So anyway, back to the cricket: Bracewell is injured and out of the second test, so Wagner will likely come in. I didn't know this, but apparently NZ have never lost a test with Wagner playing. I still don't rate him - I think he bowls too slow, and I also think that he'd really struggle if umpires were more diligent in calling side crease no-balls - but Bracewell was quite unimpressive, so I suppose he's worth a shot.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:40 am

Verity wrote:
before people confirm that you were indeed born this way, and that this thread is not merely indicative of a bad day for you.


:lmao:



I tell yaa. this is something I am gonna memorize.. best line I have read here in a long time.. hell.. ever. (no no.. not because it is about you katto.. just that I love the way the sentence is constructed).

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:42 am

Katto wrote:I think Paddles has dropped one of his oars in the water. He's in a complete spin :lol:


I'm not the one attempting distraction from poor comprehension and inability to read past the first sentence of a post.

If anyone is going around in circles Katto, it is you.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:42 am

Striped Lungi wrote:
Verity wrote:
:lmao:



I tell yaa. this is something I am gonna memorize.. best line I have read here in a long time.. hell.. ever. (no no.. not because it is about you katto.. just that I love the way the sentence is constructed).


Thankyou Lungi. That is quite a compliment. SGGF and yourself can be quite eloquent at times.
Last edited by Paddles on Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:45 am

GiantScrub wrote:So anyway, back to the cricket: Bracewell is injured and out of the second test, so Wagner will likely come in. I didn't know this, but apparently NZ have never lost a test with Wagner playing. I still don't rate him - I think he bowls too slow, and I also think that he'd really struggle if umpires were more diligent in calling side crease no-balls - but Bracewell was quite unimpressive, so I suppose he's worth a shot.


Wagner is in no way, rightly or wrongly, confirmed to play ahead of Henry at this stage that I am aware of.

Wagner has a good track record, and should never have been dropped for Bracewell; Henry deserved a trial after his impressive odi career, but he has achieved nothing in tests so far. But here we are again, with Henry having yet again shone in ODI cricket, and a spot up for grabs.

Wagner can bowl more overs and have been okay in the past, and Henry is the better new ball bowler, been woeful in tests and wonderful in oDI (#4 in the world at present). It is a tough decision for the selectors to make with an allrounder at 6 limiting the value of Wagner's tireless bowling abilities from having increased weight in a 4 prong attack scenario.

Moving forward, I would give the third seamer spot to Wagner, and have a batsman at #6, but with Anderson at 6, that gives Henry a sniff, even without the new ball.
Last edited by Paddles on Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:52 am

Paddles wrote:
GiantScrub wrote:So anyway, back to the cricket: Bracewell is injured and out of the second test, so Wagner will likely come in. I didn't know this, but apparently NZ have never lost a test with Wagner playing. I still don't rate him - I think he bowls too slow, and I also think that he'd really struggle if umpires were more diligent in calling side crease no-balls - but Bracewell was quite unimpressive, so I suppose he's worth a shot.


Wagner is in no way, rightly or wrongly, confirmed to play ahead of Henry at this stage that I am aware of.

Wagner has a good track record, and should never have been dropped for Bracewell; Henry deserved a trial after his impressive odi career, but he has achieved nothing in tests so far. But here we are again, with Henry having yet again shone in ODI cricket, and a spot up for grabs.

Wagner can bowl more overs and have been okay in the past, and Henry is the better new ball bowler, been woeful in tests and wonderful in oDI (#4 in the world at present). It is a tough decision for the selectors to make with an allrounder at 6 limited Wagner's tireless bowling abilities from having increased weight in a 4 prong attack scenario.

Moving forward, I would give the third seamer spot to Wagner, and have a batsman at #6, but with Anderson at 6, that gives Henry a sniff, even without the new ball.


Well yeah I get that Henry could technically play, but that attack looks awful then. Three new ball bowlers, which would be a fine aggressive option if Boult didn't look so sketchy. If Boult doesn't fire, then you don't want Henry or Southee to bowl long spells because of the kind of bowler they are, and for whatever reason BMac doesn't appear to like bowling Anderson - lack of faith? Coming back from injury? idk - so then Craig ends up bowling 30 overs out of 80. And you'll excuse me for not thinking that's a great idea. I mean, I like Henry and don't rate Wagner, and I said that earlier in the thread I think, but not even I would pick Henry here.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:06 am

GiantScrub wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Wagner is in no way, rightly or wrongly, confirmed to play ahead of Henry at this stage that I am aware of.

Wagner has a good track record, and should never have been dropped for Bracewell; Henry deserved a trial after his impressive odi career, but he has achieved nothing in tests so far. But here we are again, with Henry having yet again shone in ODI cricket, and a spot up for grabs.

Wagner can bowl more overs and have been okay in the past, and Henry is the better new ball bowler, been woeful in tests and wonderful in oDI (#4 in the world at present). It is a tough decision for the selectors to make with an allrounder at 6 limited Wagner's tireless bowling abilities from having increased weight in a 4 prong attack scenario.

Moving forward, I would give the third seamer spot to Wagner, and have a batsman at #6, but with Anderson at 6, that gives Henry a sniff, even without the new ball.


Well yeah I get that Henry could technically play, but that attack looks awful then. Three new ball bowlers, which would be a fine aggressive option if Boult didn't look so sketchy. If Boult doesn't fire, then you don't want Henry or Southee to bowl long spells because of the kind of bowler they are, and for whatever reason BMac doesn't appear to like bowling Anderson - lack of faith? Coming back from injury? idk - so then Craig ends up bowling 30 overs out of 80. And you'll excuse me for not thinking that's a great idea. I mean, I like Henry and don't rate Wagner, and I said that earlier in the thread I think, but not even I would pick Henry here.


Every point you make is more or less valid.

You pointing out that Henry's success in ODI cricket is a new ball bowler is quite astute in my opinion. I agree. It is valid and relevant.

Anderson does not bowl much because, it could injure him trying to get him to bowl 15-20 overs in a day and he is unlikely to get out top order batsman, bar batting error (he can actually swing a new ball - but he is not getting the new ball as 4th seamer).

The only question I have, is if Boult fires, then he goes back to being our #1 threat, which makes both Henry and Wagner's job easier. If Boult doesn't fire, and cannot swing the new ball, a selector may think that Henry is a better option, and make Boult bowl the third seamer. Yes I said that. Boult not firing and not swinging the ball anymore is no longer a secret known to cricket fans watching the game. It is common knowledge now.

Wagner is the best third seamer in a four prong attack option. Anderson bowling 10-15 overs a day, limits the need (wrongly in my view - I would not pick Anderson in tests) for a workhorse third seamer like Wagner.

If Wagner plays and fails, fans will say stupid selectors, Henry was on fire in ODIs. If Henry plays and fails, keen cricket fans will say Wagner always deserved to be there.

I do not envy the selectors on this one.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:10 am

Well if Anderson isn't good enough to take top order wickets with an older ball, a la MMarsh, then he really needs to bat better than he is. Does NZ have another reserve batsman or is Nicholls it?

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:12 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:I think Paddles has dropped one of his oars in the water. He's in a complete spin :lol:


I'm not the one attempting distraction from poor comprehension and inability to read past the first sentence of a post.

If anyone is going around in circles Katto, it is you.


my response is relevant regardless of what your post is about but you're so highly strung and nobody here has even bothered to follow this skirmish which you instigated
you're up the creek

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:18 am

Paddles your turn

Katto you get half a point for that jab.. I would have given you one point but you should have said "strung up" instead of strung.. so half marks deducted for that.

Paddles, you get 1 mark for that previous post I quoted.. plus bonus half point so you ar at 1.5 marks. Katto you got your work cut out for you.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:18 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
I'm not the one attempting distraction from poor comprehension and inability to read past the first sentence of a post.

If anyone is going around in circles Katto, it is you.


my response is relevant regardless of what your post is about but you're so highly strung and nobody here has even bothered to follow this skirmish which you instigated
you're up the creek


Rest assured Katto, I treat your posting with the relevance that someone who admits that he only reads the first sentence of a post, who then clearly cannot comprehend the plain English meaning of that post, aggressively replies and then has the audacity after admission to deny the direction of his reply post, truly deserves.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:22 am

.5 marks paddles. wrong usage of a punctuation marks.. uh!! (or may be too complicated a use of language that normal people cannot understand even after reading while doing a headstand).. I cannot which is which but surely deserves a .5 deduction.

Katto your turn.. still need to catch up on 1.5 points.. that will take some thinking I reckon.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:22 am

GiantScrub wrote:Well if Anderson isn't good enough to take top order wickets with an older ball, a la MMarsh, then he really needs to bat better than he is. Does NZ have another reserve batsman or is Nicholls it?


Nicholls is lucky. He would not be there but for Ross Taylor's injury.

Nicholls leap-frogged Will Young (who is not having the best time in the past few weeks domestically) through being a better ODI option. M Bracewell fell away last year.

Ryder is still, without doubt, the best batsman likely to suceed, not in the team.

Ben Smith and Jeet Raval are fine red ball batsmen, but are ridiculously handicapped because they are opening batsmen and it is the middle order up for grabs at present. This despite their NZA efforts. I do not see why they cannot bat in the middle order if required.

Colin Munro is a force. Unfortunately for Colin, he judged on his SR and six hitting, and people ignore the massive scores he puts together, and the fact he can belt some of the world's best bowlers (he has taken to Steyn and Amir with disdain).

That leaves Dean Brownlie, who slaughters seamers but hates turning pitches. He has a healthy average against Australia, and tonned up against Steyn , Morkel and Philander. Many would have played him this series ahead of Nicholls. But this year he has been re-inveting himself as an opening batsman.
Last edited by Paddles on Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:23 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
my response is relevant regardless of what your post is about but you're so highly strung and nobody here has even bothered to follow this skirmish which you instigated
you're up the creek


Rest assured Katto, I treat your posting with the relevance that someone who admits that he only reads the first sentence of a post, who then clearly cannot comprehend the plain English meaning of that post, aggressively replies and then has the audacity after admission to deny the direction of his reply post, truly deserves.


Again, you have a strange definition of aggression. If that was something you deem as aggressive then crybully is an apt description of you.
You've completely failed to understand my original post and the context in which it was meant and instead took it as a personal jibe. Well you've made it personal and if you wanna go with Katto you can suffer the consequence. :lol:

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:27 am

I think I have to award 1.7 points here.. I would have given 1.5 but hey.. we gotta keep the game interesting.. draws are never that.

Here is the breakup.. .5 deduction for a rather simple language.. but .5 awarded back for the use of apt in a very apt context and 1 point extra for coining a new term crybully.. the extra .2 is for the threat perception to make it spicy.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:27 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Rest assured Katto, I treat your posting with the relevance that someone who admits that he only reads the first sentence of a post, who then clearly cannot comprehend the plain English meaning of that post, aggressively replies and then has the audacity after admission to deny the direction of his reply post, truly deserves.


Again, you have a strange definition of aggression. If that was something you deem as aggressive then crybully is an apt description of you.
You've completely failed to understand my original post and the context in which it was meant and instead took it as a personal jibe. Well you've made it personal and if you wanna go with Katto you can suffer the consequence. :lol:


I'm not a crybully because I did not attack you first.

Katto, the only consequences I have suffered is having to read your pathetic denials after previous admissions; and reading your admitting that you only read one sentence that you clearly did not comprehend. All this because you're both lazy and unable to comprehend plain English.

If you want to carry on like an idiot. Be my guest. You made the original mistakes, but seemed determined to have the last word. I would have thought your hole was big enough, but hey - keep digging yourself a bigger one. Go for it.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:29 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
Again, you have a strange definition of aggression. If that was something you deem as aggressive then crybully is an apt description of you.
You've completely failed to understand my original post and the context in which it was meant and instead took it as a personal jibe. Well you've made it personal and if you wanna go with Katto you can suffer the consequence. :lol:


I'm not a crybully because I did not attack you first.

Katto, the only consequences I have suffered is having to read your pathetic denials after previous admissions; and reading your admitting that you only read one sentence that you clearly did not comprehend. All this because you're both lazy and unable to comprehend plain English.

If you want to carry on like an idiot. Be my guest. You made the original mistakes, but seemed determined to have the last word. I would have thought your hole was big enough, but hey - keep digging yourself a bigger one. Go for it.


But you did. That's exactly what you did.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:32 am

Katto wrote:But you did. That's exactly what you did.


:lmao:

Paddles wrote:Finally the NZ media has picked up on one of the biggest problems facing the NZ test team:

"Allrounders" batting at 6.

Wagner's mysterious dropping is also analysed. But to be fair - Henry's limited overs form did warrant a trialling in test matches at some point. But it would appear that members of the media have had enough of Bracewell. My views that Wagner should not have been dropped for Bracewell appear earlier in this thread - I was angry that he did not play in Australia. As do my complaints about number 6. Perhaps if I and the media can see some of the problems, Hesson will be able in time too. While Bracewell never deserved to be there ahead of Wagner, he did dupe people that he was improving with both bat and ball, so once there, a continued experiment seemed viable. So a lot of us were suckered in that his continued selection was not a bad call.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11590957
Perhaps Neil Wagner thought it would be hilarious to put trainer wheels on coach Mike Hesson's bike. Who knows, maybe he put Deep Heat in Brendon McCullum's jockstrap or talcum powder in Tim Southee's blowdryer.

Whatever he did, he should have apologised so we could have avoided the ridiculous situation of him having been omitted from all four tests against Australia this season.

Wagner's rejection from an under-performing New Zealand team is just plain weird. You want to know the results of the last 10 tests New Zealand has played with Wagner in the team? Good, I'm just the person to tell you. They have won seven and drawn three. You don't need to be Alan Turing to work out that doesn't leave any room for losses.

What about the last 10 tests New Zealand have played without Wagner? Glad you asked and I can help you there. Drawn two, won three, lost... five.

I can see some of you at the back of the class with your hands in the air dying to point out that Wagner didn't play Australia and therefore the numbers are skewed.


Chicken, allow me to introduce you to egg, or vice versa.

With Doug Bracewell's injury, there is a chance for the wrong to be righted.

The bustling Wagner is the dose of aggression to add to what has become a largely passive Black Cap attack. All muscle and thunder, the South African-born left-armer can bowl some utter tripe, whole spells of it at times, but at least he does it with feeling.

It would have been nice to watch him come around the wicket at the Basin, get wide on the crease and bump the bejaysus out of Usman Khawaja and Adam Voges for a spell.

Even leaving aside the fact he has takes wickets more often and less expensively than the preferred Bracewell, Wagner has the intangible effect of making those around him play better.

Continuing to leave him out was starting to suggest it wasn't a cricket selection, but something more mysterious. If that's the case then it's a joke - a bad one.

***

I don't subscribe to the knee-jerk theories put forward that the result in Wellington was a case of systemic failure; a case of umpire failure (though Dick Illingworth didn't help, he didn't cost a series like Nigel 'It Could Have Come from Anything' Llong); or, most laughably, a case of a team taking their eye off the ball while celebrating their captain's career.

It was simply, and even more disturbingly, a case of too many individuals being horribly, catastrophically out of form and if you look at the numbers, it's a wonder they beat Sri Lanka, let alone Straya.

To wit:

McCullum's test batting decline from December 2014 to now (435 runs at 27.2) is well documented. I'd need director of cricket Lindsay Crocker to take a polygraph test to convince me that McCullum wasn't strong-armed into extending his career beyond Leeds to protect a new captain, probably Kane Williamson, from starting their tenure with home-and-away series against Australia.

McCullum plays best when he defends straight and at the moment he's defending to cover and midwicket, the latter technique costing him his wicket twice in Wellington.

Although he is used to accepting the role as public punching bag, he is far from alone in his woes. Some of his vaunted teammates have been searingly awful.

The top four, even taking into account the collapse on the Basin's first-morning greensward, get a pass mark, with the qualification that Guptill's summer average of 33.2 drops to an anaemic 18.1 versus Australia.

Beyond McCullum, there are black holes of productivity at No 6 and 7.

The allrounders position at No 6 has been filled by four players - Jimmy Neesham (Brisbane), BJ Watling (Perth), Mitchell Santner (Adelaide, Dunedin and Hamilton) and Corey Anderson (Wellington). Just 175 runs have been scored in the position at a woeful average of 17.5; the nine wickets have cost 41.7.

This position is heavily in deficit.

Watling, who apart from Perth bats at No 7, has become the most inexplicable case. Renowned for his heady batting in a crisis, the wicketkeeper has been a shell of himself, scoring a meagre 156 runs at 17.3 and looks to be clueless against offspinner Nathan Lyon.

You want to get a sense with your bowling and wicketkeeping allrounders that you can't keep them out of the game; New Zealand haven't been able to get theirs into the game.

But don't think the bowlers are getting a free pass.

Look at Southee, the bowling leader. At first glance his 21 test wickets at 31.5 looks like a reasonable return. At second glance, his eight wickets against Australia at 56.3 looks weak as water.

His new-ball partner Trent Boult has also taken 21 test wickets this summer, at an adequate 37.2. His figures have held up reasonably well against Australia - 15 at 39.3 - but it's hardly strike bowler output.

But don't worry, coming on at first change we have Bracewell, whose 14 wickets this summer have cost 49.6; whose nine against Australia cost 55.

You can put any spin on it you want, but that's an ordinary return from your first-choice seamers.

Which brings us to actual spin. Cripes.

Perhaps the kindest thing you could say is Mark Craig batted very well in Wellington. The unkindest thing would be that Australia are praying for his continued selection. His 10 test wickets this summer have cost 666 runs. You do the math.

It adds up to a combustible failure of form and the problem with the way the game is structured is that there are few options to find form. Instead we have out-of-form bowlers bowling to out-of-form batsmen in net sessions that are as useful as a three-legged racehorse.

The Black Caps came into this summer on the back of a few years of unparalleled success in long-form cricket, but when Hesson pulled the Camaro out of the garage this summer only a couple of cylinders were firing.

Which makes Wagner's omission this summer all the more inexplicable. He's never had the chance to succeed against Australia, but nor has he hopelessly failed either. At the moment, that sad fact alone puts him ahead of the incumbents.


Not sure ona Wagner bump a thon against Khwaja who plays off the back foot well and to Voges who grew up on Waca pitches and bowlers like Mitch Johnson.


Katto wrote:so "Allrounders" batting at 6 was the difference between the two sides :punter4:


Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Was it too long for you to read past the first few lines?


Yep. I get bored easily.
Try to be more succinct or highlight the important passages. Life is short.
Last edited by Paddles on Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:33 am

Someone put him out of his misery.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:34 am

he he.. this calls for scoring help..

I have to award points for understanding the meaning of 'crybully'.. and also points for the subtle reply to a subtle challenge.. I am not sure howmuch would be fair to paddles and how much would become unfair to katto..

For now the scores will be deemed even stevens.. (not bucknor but the other one)
Any volunteers?

katto what does 'his his misery' mean?

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:35 am

Katto wrote:Someone put him out of his misery.


The only misery I suffered here is that your inability to understand the phrase "one of the biggest problems".

If only you were more literate and less stubborn.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:35 am

katto.. that is cheating..you edited your post.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:37 am

Striped Lungi wrote:katto.. that is cheating..you edited your post.


For the record, I have no issue with him editing his posts. But I do find his denials rather funny after previous admissions.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:38 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:Someone put him out of his misery.


The only misery I suffered here is that your inability to understand the phrase "one of the biggest problems".

If only you were literate.


You dont even realise you're doing it.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:39 am

Paddles wrote:
GiantScrub wrote:Well if Anderson isn't good enough to take top order wickets with an older ball, a la MMarsh, then he really needs to bat better than he is. Does NZ have another reserve batsman or is Nicholls it?


Nicholls is lucky. He would not be there but for Ross Taylor's injury.

Nicholls leap-frogged Will Young (who is not having the best time in the past few weeks domestically) through being a better ODI option. M Bracewell fell away last year.

Ryder is still, without doubt, the best batsman likely to suceed, not in the team.

Ben Smith and Jeet Raval are fine red ball batsmen, but are ridiculously handicapped because they are opening batsmen and it is the middle order up for grabs at present. This despite their NZA efforts. I do not see why they cannot bat in the middle order if required.

Colin Munro is a force. Unfortunately for Colin, he judged on his SR and six hitting, and people ignore the massive scores he puts together, and the fact he can belt some of the world's best bowlers (he has taken to Steyn and Amir with disdain).

That leaves Dean Brownlie, who slaughters seamers but hates turning pitches. He has a healthy average against Australia, and tonned up against Steyn , Morkel and Philander. Many would have played him this series ahead of Nicholls. But this year he has been re-inveting himself as an opening batsman.


I saw Brownlie against I think India. The guy looked like a complete spaz. I always thought of Munro as an Aaron Finch type and not suited for long form. Is he way down the list?

Actually, better question. If, say, KW had a tragic crocheting accident and couldn't play the next test, who would they play? And who should they play?

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:39 am

Striped Lungi wrote:he he.. this calls for scoring help..

I have to award points for understanding the meaning of 'crybully'.. and also points for the subtle reply to a subtle challenge.. I am not sure howmuch would be fair to paddles and how much would become unfair to katto..

For now the scores will be deemed even stevens.. (not bucknor but the other one)
Any volunteers?

katto what does 'his his misery' mean?


I proof read my post as any literate person would do and corrected the mistype.
Unlike some others here who go back and change history after the bird has flown.
Last edited by Katto on Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:40 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
The only misery I suffered here is that your inability to understand the phrase "one of the biggest problems".

If only you were literate.


You dont even realise you're doing it.


Oh no, I am well aware there that I am risking the possibility of slighting you. But it is factually accurate, nevertheless. The truth is never defamatory Katto.

I suggested that you go in peace. You made the original mistakes, and then carried on with stubborn fool's pride.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:41 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
You dont even realise you're doing it.


Oh no, I am well aware there that I am slighting you. But it is factually accurate, nevertheless. The truth is never defamatory Katto.


So you've been communicating with an illiterate person on a chat forum all of this time?
If I'm illiterate then you're mentally ill. :lol:

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:42 am

Oh dear.. this is getting up a notch.. hmm.. from test it became ODI from there a T20 now it is becoming baseball..

You know it is so gratifying to see two gentlemen spar using anything but foul language..Kudos.. I encourage everyone to tune in just to learn something for a change.

Katto your turn. (and yes I saw that post where paddles edited from 'literate' to more literate and less stubborn'.. I just wanted to see if you noticed.. 1 point for that one.. paddles, he has gone up in score here.. you cannot let that happen.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:43 am

I saw Brownlie against I think India. The guy looked like a complete spaz. I always thought of Munro as an Aaron Finch type and not suited for long form. Is he way down the list?

Actually, better question. If, say, KW had a tragic crocheting accident and couldn't play the next test, who would they play? And who should they play?


Yeah Brownlie is woeful on turning pitches. But he has never played India or a sub continental nation. Lyon, as good as he is, is a tad different to an all out Asian attack.

It would be either Brownlie or Will Young I suspect, with Munro getting odds, just not as good ones. Ryder would not be on the bookies' list I suspect.

Probably Brownlie for the #3 spot, but if Bmac or Nicholls were injured, that would work in Will Young's favour. Just due to the #3 batting order position that you asked about.
Last edited by Paddles on Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:44 am

I NEED SCORERS HERE.. I am risking awarding the wrong points to the wrong party and mess up the whole thing.. HEEEELLLLLLLPPPPPP...

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:45 am

Striped Lungi wrote:Oh dear.. this is getting up a notch.. hmm.. from test it became ODI from there a T20 now it is becoming baseball..

You know it is so gratifying to see two gentlemen spar using anything but foul language..Kudos.. I encourage everyone to tune in just to learn something for a change.

Katto your turn. (and yes I saw that post where paddles edited from 'literate' to more literate and less stubborn'.. I just wanted to see if you noticed.. 1 point for that one.. paddles, he has gone up in score here.. you cannot let that happen.


I did notice and I've also noticed the other longer post he made which he's edited twice; a full 4 minutes after the original post.
He's rattled and cant make up his mind which is typical of someone in his predicament.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:46 am

Katto wrote:
Striped Lungi wrote:Oh dear.. this is getting up a notch.. hmm.. from test it became ODI from there a T20 now it is becoming baseball..

You know it is so gratifying to see two gentlemen spar using anything but foul language..Kudos.. I encourage everyone to tune in just to learn something for a change.

Katto your turn. (and yes I saw that post where paddles edited from 'literate' to more literate and less stubborn'.. I just wanted to see if you noticed.. 1 point for that one.. paddles, he has gone up in score here.. you cannot let that happen.


I did notice and I've also noticed the other longer post he made which he's edited twice; a full 4 minutes after the original post.
He's rattled and cant make up his mind which is typical of someone in his predicament.


No - just proof reading grammar so you cannot have any excuse not to clearly comprehend my meaning, seeing you only read the first sentence so as to avoid accurate context and also because you struggle with plain English at the best of times.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:50 am

Paddles wrote:
Katto wrote:
I did notice and I've also noticed the other longer post he made which he's edited twice; a full 4 minutes after the original post.
He's rattled and cant make up his mind which is typical of someone in his predicament.


No - just proof reading grammar so you cannot have any excuse not to clearly comprehend my meaning, seeing you only read the first sentence so as to avoid accurate context and also because you struggle with plain English at the best of times.


Proof reading grammar? Your entire post consisted of quotes from other posts. There was nothing to proof read :lol: :lol: :lol:
You just went over a waterfall champ :lol:

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 am

Katto wrote:
Paddles wrote:
No - just proof reading grammar so you cannot have any excuse not to clearly comprehend my meaning, seeing you only read the first sentence so as to avoid accurate context and also because you struggle with plain English at the best of times.


Proof reading grammar? Your entire post consisted of quotes from other posts. There was nothing to proof read :lol: :lol: :lol:
You just went over a waterfall champ :lol:


No. Other than contradicting your previously attempted point, in the post most closely resembling what you accuse me of here, there was at least an :lmao: added.

English isn't your thing is it?

I'll be careful to add "proofreading my grammar and further adding clarification quotes so you cannot have any excuse not to clearly comprehend my meaning" for you in future.
Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsman
A third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.