Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

This is the forum for discussion of all cricketing issues and news. Here you will find frank analysis and opinion on subjects ranging from selection policies, favourite cricketers and match post-mortems right through to dressing room and cricket board fiascos.
GpeL
CF Champion
CF Champion
Posts: 12584
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:11 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Swaziland

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:09 am

LH is being too anal about things here.

Paddles and Katto and Verity and all.. this is the UFC..

Free for all.. punches, kicks and head butts all are ok.

P.S Words like anal and butt are to be understood only in the context of the post :evil:

User avatar
Loose halo
CF Specialist
CF Specialist
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:47 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Australia

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Loose halo » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:01 am

Last time I as gabbadan (plus a few others) tried that we were dismissed by a very anal administration. Bye Shorty Roy Vcr and others.

Things certainly have changed since then you can now even swear a little.

Seeing you give me licence I will heed it so beware. :)

GpeL
CF Champion
CF Champion
Posts: 12584
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:11 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Swaziland

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:19 am

When did anyone need permission to any thing here at all? As long as it is not generally OTT, it all is ok here.. OTT means porn and being a real pain in the arse.. etc.. but hey we are fairly anything goes sorts here.

User avatar
Loose halo
CF Specialist
CF Specialist
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:47 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Australia

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Loose halo » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:45 am

It was an unfortunate incident best forgotten now as the Administrator in question no longer posts here.

Were you on the old forum?

GpeL
CF Champion
CF Champion
Posts: 12584
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:11 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Swaziland

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:54 am

I was here from the time this forum was born.. yes. I was away for a while from 2007 to may be 2010 ish but yaa I was there pretty much other wise all the time here.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:58 am

Congratulations to Brendon McCullum who with a filthy but entertaining and memorable slogfest, turned the momentum of the current test match to bring New Zealand back into the contest, with an innings that is best described as the single fastest fastest ever century in the history of test cricket.

In his final test match, played in Christchurch, a city currently experiencing earth quakes yet again, McCullum unleashed a blitzkrieg and rode his luck all the way to 145. It was an important innings for NZ, after he yet again lost another toss, and NZ was inserted on a greenie that was seaming everywhere at pace, but looking to flatten out by tea.

From 32-3, McCullum's innings meant NZ could post a fighting 370, and not be out of the match at the end of day 1.

Here's hoping it is a job half done for BMac, and he produces another century in the second innings to make his final test match one for him, and NZ cricket fans alike, in front of a crowd that could do with some entertainment and good times, one to celebrate.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

User avatar
Going South
Muppet Administrator
Muppet Administrator
Posts: 25317
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:10 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
United States of America

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:19 pm

Earth quakes? Would the bowler get no ball?

GpeL
CF Champion
CF Champion
Posts: 12584
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:11 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Swaziland

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Why? The bolwer and batsman both were shaking at that moment I think..

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:54 am

Well that solves it.

Not only should Wagner have never been dropped, we are now left wondering what if?

Not only what if he had bowled earlier in this game, but if he had rightfully played ahead of Henry and Bracewell all summer.

Oh well, Henry deserved his trials. And now we know Bracewell is not test standard.

Wagner has to be a lock as third seamer in Africa. Any further dropping is incomprehensible. Wonder how the crowd will receive him?
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

GiantScrub
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 4073
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:21 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:02 am

At least four of Wagner's wickets were poor batting rather than good bowling. That said, you can't take wickets off poorly place pull shots if you don't set the field and bowl to it, so some credit to the guy I suppose. And it's not like the other bowlers had better ideas.

User avatar
Katto
CF Champion
CF Champion
Posts: 13727
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:34 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Tuvalu

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Katto » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:21 am

and most of them came after a 289 run partnership :lol:

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:37 pm

GiantScrub wrote:At least four of Wagner's wickets were poor batting rather than good bowling. That said, you can't take wickets off poorly place pull shots if you don't set the field and bowl to it, so some credit to the guy I suppose. And it's not like the other bowlers had better ideas.


And you cannot score runs off him if you do not try and play those shots. And with fielders there, it is a high risk shot. So it is actually pretty smart bowling. Either the run scoring stops, or batsman risk their wicket and get out - either way the innings "Wagnates".

Fan of the tactics or not, either way, Wagner has come up trumps yet again. I actually thought Voges would be more disciplined, but just like the Don, he couldn't resist having a crack at the short stuff.
Last edited by Paddles on Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:39 pm

Katto wrote:and most of them came after a 289 run partnership :lol:


All of Wagner's wickets did. Wagner was critically underbowled before and during that partnership.

Smith and Burns originally left the Wagner short balls alone, then both got out playing to them.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

GpeL
CF Champion
CF Champion
Posts: 12584
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:11 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Swaziland

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:48 pm

Ok.. there.. you both had enough of weekend rest.. now warmed up too.. now pick up your choicest weapons and let the contest begin.

May you both be victorious.. bring it on...

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:59 pm

:dlf:
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

GpeL
CF Champion
CF Champion
Posts: 12584
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:11 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Swaziland

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:54 pm

That was impressive shot but off a dead ball.. no score..

So.. well.. lets start the real thing.. words speak louder than pictures here.

User avatar
Going South
Muppet Administrator
Muppet Administrator
Posts: 25317
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:10 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
United States of America

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:35 pm

The day belong to Pattinson

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:36 pm

NZ Cricket awards were held tonight, an done could argue that Kane Williamson did not receive all the awards he should have.

Yes, he won the test batsman of the year, and Guppy deservedly won the ODI and T20 player of the year.

Kane Williamson also won the Sir Richard Hadlee medal as best cricketer of the year, which includes test, odi and T20.

So what award did he not win?

Trent Boult won the red ball bowler of the year award.

Trent averaged 34.37 over 9 tests, hardly bowler of the year stuff. The home summer, was really dissapointing for Trent as his average balloons to 39.54. This includes his 7 wickets with the pink ball in the day night test for next to no runs. The truth is, Trent has been missing in action since after his first 2 tests of the year in England, where he bowled well.

So how did Trent win the award?

Southee: 38.96 for 30 wickets
Bracewell: 49.64 for 14 wickets
Craig: 56.47 for 17 wickets
Anderson: 62 for 3 wickets
Henry: 63.2 for 10 wickets
Neesham: 111 for a wicket

Yes, those numbers make grim reading for any NZ cricket fan. The bowling unit has well and truly crapped itself.

The positives:

Wagner: 25 over a mere 3 tests for 16 wickets. People will look back and wonder why he was dropped for Bracewell, several times.

Santner: 31 for 6 wickets over 3 tests.

But lil old Kane Williamson, with a career bowling average of 37.93, had a great year post action modification imposed by the ICC with 5 wickets at 23.40.

Yes, NZ's best batsman for the year, was also the best bowler of the year.

Don't tell anyone.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;orderby=bowling_average;spanmin1=01+Apr+2015;spanval1=span;team=5;template=results;type=bowling
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:53 pm

Some home truths for Mike Hesson about the test team:

It is believed that McCullum will be replaced by Nicholls. Hesson believes that Nicholls played well at the basin reserve and is a fine player.

What this does not tell you is that Nicholls has played one drive in the V, and off drive, for 4 runs, in 4 completed test innings. He has nicked out twice, to most the average attempts at playing a drive you could imagine. Nicholls has a FC average of 37 after 37 games with only 4 centuries, and he is being spoken about as having earnt the #5 spot. No he has not Mike.

Munro likes to whack the ball, but he 9 centuries at 48. He has only played 40 matches.

Another home truth:

Jeet Raval has 12 FC centuries in 60 odd matches and averages 42.75, that is more than both Guptill (11 centuries -90 odd matches at 37 runs) and Latham (7 - 60 odd matches at 41 runs) both.

Jeet, 27 years of age, also has better career numbers, over a career twice as long as Ben Smith, 24. Ben Smith looks a likely prospect, 32 matches, average just under 40 and 4 centuries, but inexplicably Jeet Raval is ranked below him and Hamish Rutherford.

Hamish Rutherford has also played 60 FC matches, for 8 centuries and a FC average of 35. Hamish Rutherford toured Australia with the team.

What is going on Mike?

We can understand, though disappointing, if you cannot make things work to have Jesse Ryder back in the team. But if you do not start noticing, and selecting players based on some FC form, and the team fails in South Africa, India, then Pakistan and South Africa at home, well I fear for your longevity in the job despite your limited overs success.

Trying the same ol' failed bowlers like Bracewell and Henry, and batsmen with obvious technique flaws like Nicholls and Rutherford, when Jeet Raval, Colin Munro, Bharat Popli, Ed Nuttall and Scott Kuggelijn are dominating the domestic scene without a sniff in the test team is going to take some explaining. If Scotty's off field woes are the reason, let us know, because innocent until proven guilty and all that.

It would appear that List A success means ODI call up, and success there means a test call up as seen for Henry and Nicholls. That is a dumb way to ignore the entire first class scene in NZ Mike that is not good at 50 over cricket; Jeet Raval a perfect example.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

User avatar
Boycs
Muppet Moderator
Muppet Moderator
Posts: 10148
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:32 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0
United Kingdom

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Boycs » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:11 pm

Paddles for selector

GpeL
CF Champion
CF Champion
Posts: 12584
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:11 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Swaziland

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:06 pm

Only if katto is there along.. not otherwise.

GiantScrub
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 4073
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:21 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:09 pm

NZ have never cared about picking batsmen with technique or a wide range of shots. See: Peter Fulton

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:46 pm

GiantScrub wrote:NZ have never cared about picking batsmen with technique or a wide range of shots. See: Peter Fulton


Peter Fulton is yet another victim of international stage fright. Every country has a long list of these. But even then, he can play drives down the ground in test matches. I think the last time Fulton was in the team, his role was just to see off the shine of the ball, and block his way to 30 odd, and that was to be thought of as a success, a 50 was like a 100 for him.

Seriously, Niccholls cannot drive well. He has played one successful off drive in test cricket after 4 innings. The guy has a great cut shot. He can cut in front of the square, with control and well. He has a good pull shot, and a sweep shot.

But the driving, is just horrid, tentative, played to the wrong balls, it is just a giant mess. He follows wide wide balls, half drives, half cuts and then half leaves the ball. Instantly the bowlers smell blood and realise that they can get him out either at a length feebly trying to drive on the up, or pitch it right up, and search for swing, because Henry cannot counter it with a booming drive down the ground.

They bowl wide, he cuts well. They bowl short, he pulls well. They bowl length or fuller, he is in trouble.

It is often said that from club or grade premiers to FC cricket, the difference is less bad balls, then from FC cricket to test, the difference again is less bad balls. Test bowlers are more disciplined. Once it is common knowledge that Nicholls has a great cut shot, and a good pull shot, safe to say they will not feed him long hops, wide or straight.

I hope to heck he spends his off season in the indoor nets getting some coaching on dealing with good length and full length bowling. Because right now, he is just trying to pull everything (even from outside off at a good length at times) that he cannot cut. H
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:53 pm

SGGH wrote:Paddles for selector


Critic.

It is frustrating because Hesson is a brilliant mastermind at limited overs cricket, 50 over and T20. Tactically he is very good.

But he is clearly not following the domestic scene. Munro only got a T20 sniff because he was 2 years the leading domestic run scorer, by a comfortable margin. So he was bashing the door down to be given a chance higher in the order. Jeet Raval is not bashing the door down as overtly as Colin was, but consistently is putting numbers on the board, and plays like a test batsman. He is not Kevin Pieterson graceful dominating type with all the shots and then more, more like an Alistair Cook type leaving the ball and looking for the safe scoring shot as that arises. But that is still a very very good and effective test batsman.

Nicholls deserved his ODI slot. His List A form was sound. But his test selection from there is dubious. If it continues, it is ridiculous. He hasn't earned his stripes and he has major technical deficiencies for red ball cricket. One 50 against Straya when he was new to them and 3 failures does not a test batsman make. From there, they worked him out. There are much better qualified candidates playing in NZ FC cricket. I suspect in time, he will fail in 50 over cricket, as bowlers realise that they can bowl full pitch to him and he will struggle.

Now to play Nicholls in India, that makes sense a lil bit, where his sweeping and cutting could come to the fore, but what do you think that Steyn, Philander, Rabada and Morkel will do to this kid home and away?
Last edited by Paddles on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

GiantScrub
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 4073
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:21 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:26 am

You don't need to hit in the V to be a good test batsman. Chanderpaul and Border both got to 10k test runs at 50 the ugly way, and neither of them hit the ball straight much. They both pretty much just ignored full balls unless they were on the pads, in which case they'd flick to midwicket. I actually can't ever recall Border hitting straight except by accident. All Nicholls has to do is figure out where his off stump is and get better at leaving and he'll be at least acceptable.

Regarding Fulton, I watched every ball of his twin centuries against England because I was in hospital and bored out of my skull. He scored less than 20 runs out of more than 200 on the off side. Never has the phrase "Legside Larry" been more apt. Once people figured that out, he never scored another international run. Literally the worst player I've ever seen play test cricket, with the possible exception of Rajendra Chandrika.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:59 am

GiantScrub wrote:You don't need to hit in the V to be a good test batsman. Chanderpaul and Border both got to 10k test runs at 50 the ugly way, and neither of them hit the ball straight much. They both pretty much just ignored full balls unless they were on the pads, in which case they'd flick to midwicket. I actually can't ever recall Border hitting straight except by accident. All Nicholls has to do is figure out where his off stump is and get better at leaving and he'll be at least acceptable.

Regarding Fulton, I watched every ball of his twin centuries against England because I was in hospital and bored out of my skull. He scored less than 20 runs out of more than 200 on the off side. Never has the phrase "Legside Larry" been more apt. Once people figured that out, he never scored another international run. Literally the worst player I've ever seen play test cricket, with the possible exception of Rajendra Chandrika.


I like you as a poster scrub, but I disagree on Border. Yes, Border did prefer the deflection to third man, cut, cut and cut, square drive, cover drives, and the square and cover drives, but he certainly had both cracking off and straight drives, he had an on drive that was not necessarily "booming"*, but he could go over the top of long on (by shuffling or not) and opening his front hip and hitting through the ball. All this with his pull shot, sweep shot, clipping off pads square and fine, on side drop kick and his pull shot.
Take a trip down memory lane:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIWKY4s9VRE

As for Chanderpaul, he was a glorious driver in the V from on and off side, as well wider on the off side:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYqur8FdSzE

And if you think it is merely because of the NZ attack, he did the same thing to a Steve Waugh led Australia in the Windies about a decade earlier.

Border certainly was disciplined and played low risk high percentage cricket, but he had all the shots. Shiv, despite that crabby stance while taking guard, was rather elegant and orthodox in stroke play imho, but that guard just made it all look peculiar and often ugly, despite him being side on and still at the bowler's release.

* If the classic on drive should be a "push", Border often on drove with more of a "prod".
Last edited by Paddles on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

GiantScrub
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 4073
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:21 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:08 am

Can't watch videos because on mobile. Suffice it to say that if you're trying to convince me that Border and Chanderpaul could consistently punish you straight if you bowled full on fifth stump, you might be talking for a long time without success.

Is Nicholls going to be a good test bat? NFI. Does he necessarily need a straight drive? Not really, and especially not as a left hander.
Last edited by GiantScrub on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:10 am

GiantScrub wrote:Can't watch videos because on mobile. Suffice it to say that if you're trying to convince me that Border and Chanderpaul could consistently punish you straight if you bowled full on fifth stump, you might be talking for a long time without success.


Full on 5th stump? That would be dispatched either square or through the covers.

I'm saying if you bowled on the stumps, it would go back down the ground.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

GiantScrub
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 4073
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:21 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:12 am

If you bowled on the stumps to either of those guys it's not going straight, it's going through midwicket.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:14 am

GiantScrub wrote:Can't watch videos because on mobile. Suffice it to say that if you're trying to convince me that Border and Chanderpaul could consistently punish you straight if you bowled full on fifth stump, you might be talking for a long time without success.

Is Nicholls going to be a good test bat? NFI. Does he necessarily need a straight drive? Not really, and especially not as a left hander.


It is not just the straight drive.

It is the on drive, straight drive, off drive and cover driving that is the issue. It is all ineffectual and getting him out without many runs scored.

I'd agree that he doesn't need a square drive.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:14 am

GiantScrub wrote:If you bowled on the stumps to either of those guys it's not going straight, it's going through midwicket.


Not according to the videos.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

GiantScrub
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 4073
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:21 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:18 am

If a guy plays for 20 years he's going to play a straight drive at some point. Occasionally it might even come off the middle of the bat. It's not necessarily representative of what they typically did, though.

Anyway, if you agree that the flick through midwicket is an acceptable shot to play to a full ball on the stumps, and the leave is an acceptable shot to play to a full ball outside off, then I think I've made my point.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:02 am

GiantScrub wrote:If a guy plays for 20 years he's going to play a straight drive at some point. Occasionally it might even come off the middle of the bat. It's not necessarily representative of what they typically did, though.

Anyway, if you agree that the flick through midwicket is an acceptable shot to play to a full ball on the stumps, and the leave is an acceptable shot to play to a full ball outside off, then I think I've made my point.


Yes, you make a very good point.

But to be honest, I would rather he just left the ball, like you suggest, and blocked the straight balls rather than making himself an LBW or bowled candidate because I do not think he has Steve Smith's eye off the stumps and pads to leg side whip everything straight. (I know Steve Smith can and does drive, but he would be perfect to do what you suggest, his eye off his pads is outstanding - he rarely misses, not even on leg stump to fine leg, middle stump square, or off stump to mid wicket). Nicholls could then focus on his cut shot. But that is so easy to plug in the field square if you do not need a mid on or mid off, and against disciplined seam bowlers, his runs will dry up and I fear that he will stagnate.

My point remains good too, the kid needs a lot of work. And he does not have the FC chops or success to warrant being in the test side ahead of those with more success and experience in FC cricket (and limited overs internationals).
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:58 pm

So Jesse Ryder celebrated Brendon McCullum's retirement by asking NZC whether he had any chance of playing again.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11596854

But some think at 31 Jesse is too old. Adam Don II Voges debuted at 36. Get real.

The young guys in Nicholls and Worker have obvious technical flaws. Plus Jesse's all round abilities mean another batsman can bat at 6 in the test team.

As for his weight concerns, #DreamBig Mike Hesson.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

GiantScrub
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 4073
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:21 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:07 am

Lol Ryder. He'll get selected and then f**k it all up. Again.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:10 am

GiantScrub wrote:Lol Ryder. He'll get selected and then f**k it all up. Again.


Not sure.

You do dumb shit drinking in your twenties that you stopped doing in your thirties?

He's a full time pro on the county scene for a couple of years now. I'd say he has learned to stay at home (and in the hotel) and drink quietly rather than hitting the town "wasted" these days.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

GiantScrub
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 4073
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:21 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:21 am

Personally I tried to avoid dumb shit while drinking no matter how old I was. But nobody wants to select me for the NZ cricket team so it's a moot point.

I'm skeptical personally. With these things it's usually a matter of how badly the offending player is needed to win games, and to be honest, NZ aren't losing enough yet to want Ryder back. Another couple of poor series for the team while Ryder crushes heads in county cricket may change that though.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:32 am

GiantScrub wrote:Personally I tried to avoid dumb shit while drinking no matter how old I was. But nobody wants to select me for the NZ cricket team so it's a moot point.

I'm skeptical personally. With these things it's usually a matter of how badly the offending player is needed to win games, and to be honest, NZ aren't losing enough yet to want Ryder back. Another couple of poor series for the team while Ryder crushes heads in county cricket may change that though.


Nah - that appears to be the Australian way. The New Zealand way is about punishing the player at the expense of the team. We can debate which one makes more sense ad nauseum. We do not produce and play Warne and Warner newsmakers, Ryder is our closest, but then NZ don't have our best team competing on the park. Personally, I would have liked to have seen Jesse play the last year or two. Many in NZ took a contrary view to mine. I thought his punishment was far too excessive.

Ryder was first booted when the team was rabble, then again when the team was much much stronger (but that still wasn't known as such yet - just made it harder for his return).

Jesse has more than done his time. Aussie's second best batsman gets a two match ban for punching an opposition player in a bar, ours gets over 2 years out of the team for having a drink with priors ranging back years and years before. Ridiculous. He has more than served his time. Arguably copped it far far far worse than Andrew Symonds ever did, for lesser offences.

I think the issue was far more personal between Ryder and McCullum and I eagerly await their autobiographies on the issue. Hesson and BMac were a tight twosome with a long Otago history together; noway does BMac bat in the middle order with Jesse in the team and an allrounder at 6. Bond has issues with both Hesson and BMac. As did Ross Taylor when he lost the captaincy. His best friend in the team: Jesse Ryder. I suspect there is far more going on than Jesse being stood down for just drinking.

Anyway, certain parts of the media and many fans are starting to vocally cry out for his reinstatement. NZC will be under pressure to give him another go. He is good mates with Ross Taylor, that will help post BMac in team unity.

I have long wondered, and possibly even written in this thread, that I wondered whether Neil Wagner's limited opportunities and Doug Bracewell extended opportunities, were partly as a result of not being in the Southee, Boult, Bracewell, Williamson friendship group. I am led to believe the the former 3 bowlers live either together or nearby in the same small beach town of Mt Maunganui. KW is also from that small area.

It would appear that popular and established players do seem to get sway and influence in having their mates get the selection doubt so as to play alongside them.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

GpeL
CF Champion
CF Champion
Posts: 12584
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:11 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Swaziland

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:14 am

Paddles wrote: I am led to believe the the former 3 bowlers live either together or nearby in the same small beach town of Mt Maunganui.



Hmm.. very intersting scoop this.

Do you know who sleeps in the middle?

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:56 am

And sure enough, as predicted, the media campaign and pressure for Ryder's recall has begun.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/black-caps/news/article.cfm?c_id=128&objectid=11597296

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11598727

The same NZ media that was active in taking Jesse away are now trying to bring him back. With only Duncan Johnstone voicing discontent: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/77361675/black-caps-dont-need-jesse-ryder--even-without-brendon-mccullum

If Jesse does not go to Safrica, and NZ are walloped there by a formidable bowling unit of Steyn, Philander, Morkel and Rabada, I think we could see Jesse back by India if not the home summer if disappointments continue. It would be good for NZC to get Munro and Jesse playing opportunities again earlier, rather than later after Nicholls and Worker disappoint - if and when they do so. A middle order of KW, Taylor, Ryder, Munro and Watling would be taken far more seriously by opposition attacks than one with Nicholls and Anderson. Ryder would also open in the ODI team more effectively than Tom Latham's slow strike rate.

There is still no mention of Jeet Ravaal in the print media as a possible selection for opening. Quite strange.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

GiantScrub
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 4073
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:21 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:45 am

Striped Lungi wrote:
Paddles wrote: I am led to believe the the former 3 bowlers live either together or nearby in the same small beach town of Mt Maunganui.



Hmm.. very intersting scoop this.

Do you know who sleeps in the middle?


Paddles is big spoon.

GiantScrub
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 4073
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:21 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GiantScrub » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:47 am

Paddles wrote:And sure enough, as predicted, the media campaign and pressure for Ryder's recall has begun.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/black-caps/news/article.cfm?c_id=128&objectid=11597296

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11598727

The same NZ media that was active in taking Jesse away are now trying to bring him back. With only Duncan Johnstone voicing discontent: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/77361675/black-caps-dont-need-jesse-ryder--even-without-brendon-mccullum

If Jesse does not go to Safrica, and NZ are walloped there by a formidable bowling unit of Steyn, Philander, Morkel and Rabada, I think we could see Jesse back by India if not the home summer if disappointments continue.


Not to say I told you so, but I did say pretty much exactly that.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:13 am

GiantScrub wrote:
Paddles wrote:And sure enough, as predicted, the media campaign and pressure for Ryder's recall has begun.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/black-caps/news/article.cfm?c_id=128&objectid=11597296

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11598727

The same NZ media that was active in taking Jesse away are now trying to bring him back. With only Duncan Johnstone voicing discontent: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/77361675/black-caps-dont-need-jesse-ryder--even-without-brendon-mccullum

If Jesse does not go to Safrica, and NZ are walloped there by a formidable bowling unit of Steyn, Philander, Morkel and Rabada, I think we could see Jesse back by India if not the home summer if disappointments continue.


Not to say I told you so, but I did say pretty much exactly that.


Huh? I predicted the increased media campaign for Jesse's inclusion post BMac retirement - so I would never have argued with you on that particular point.

I do agree with you if the team continues losing that some media pressure will increase, though. That does not mean that NZC will permit him back on that basis, though. But the punishment has been overly excessive already in my opinion. Over 2 years out of the team, when desperately needed against Australia, let alone ODI tours to England and Safrica, not to mention the World Cup 2015, all for having a drink. Ridiculous.

If you read the comments section, you will see many NZ'ers naysaying Jesse's recall as having had too many chances already. This is bollocks. Some of the "chances" were literally just him being seen drunk in the city. That is all.

What concerns me more about NZC media, is not just the vilification to redemption stories of Ryder influencing the public in a manner akin to Bi-Polar on Ryder's possible recall, but the total lack of following what is happening in NZ domestic cricket. The lack of games on tv influences this, where someone like George Worker has two good matches in the only two televised games after the T20 tournament, is suddenly talked of highly, but someone like Raval is never mentioned in possible test selections.

Even with the bowlers, the media are chopping and changing from the same ol names Bracewell, Southee, Boult, Wagner, Henry, when Ed Nuttall and Scott Kuggelijn are getting great results of late in the first class scene. Scott Kuggelijn can bat as well and NZ need some more runs at 8 and 9.

What we have now is a cleverly orchestrated media campaign for Guptill to be given a fourth chance in tests as an aggressive opening batsman. Well stuff me if that was not obvious as to how he should have played his existing recall. This is the same Guptill that the media used to slam for being in the New Zealand teams. But now his limited overs ability is appreciated. This pro-Guptill in tests media drive appears to originate from the coach Hesson, and Sky TV media through to the press. It probably helps no end that Martin Guptill is recently married to the Sky TV cricket show host, Laura Guptill. The media just seem to pick their flavour of the year and ride it hard in influencing public opinion, even if it was one that they were so vocal against previously and shaped public opinion on.

Personally I am frustrated at all the failures this past year and wasted time that it has taken Guptill and the media this long to figure how that is his best approach to test match batting.
Last edited by Paddles on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:52 am, edited 8 times in total.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

User avatar
Paddles
CF Senior
CF Senior
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am
Cash on hand: Locked
Bank: Locked
Reputation: 0

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:33 am

GiantScrub wrote:
Striped Lungi wrote:

Hmm.. very intersting scoop this.

Do you know who sleeps in the middle?


Paddles is big spoon.


Better than being kicked to the couch for snoring I guess.
If any moderator or administrator is able to add Going South to my foe list, I would greatly appreciate it.

GpeL
CF Champion
CF Champion
Posts: 12584
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:11 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Swaziland

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:27 am

GiantScrub wrote:
Striped Lungi wrote:

Hmm.. very intersting scoop this.

Do you know who sleeps in the middle?


Paddles is big spoon.


That is quite possible.. question is who is the fork?

GpeL
CF Champion
CF Champion
Posts: 12584
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:11 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Swaziland

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:33 am

Paddles wrote:
GiantScrub wrote:
Paddles is big spoon.


Better than being kicked to the couch for snoring I guess.


lol.. is that the perk for sleeping in the middle?

User avatar
Going South
Muppet Administrator
Muppet Administrator
Posts: 25317
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:10 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
United States of America

Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:13 pm

Lungi, you ARE indeed a bigger "tool" of Cricforum, why do you worry about who is fork?
On TV, your favorite Dora cartoons are on, go watch.

GpeL
CF Champion
CF Champion
Posts: 12584
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:11 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
Swaziland

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby GpeL » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:37 pm

How does one handle noodle with out a fork? Tell tell?

User avatar
Going South
Muppet Administrator
Muppet Administrator
Posts: 25317
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:10 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
United States of America

Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:23 pm

Use Chopsticks. Duh!

User avatar
Going South
Muppet Administrator
Muppet Administrator
Posts: 25317
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:10 pm
Cash on hand: Locked
Reputation: 0
United States of America

Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:27 pm

Would this NZ team reach semi finals with a respectable position before they retire? Can they be one of top 4 teams in T20 World Cup ?


Return to “General Cricket Discussion Forum”