David Headley case: US has let down India badly

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:55 am

Shalini wrote:Asterix, you don't have to justify either your nationality or your loyalty to anyone. You are who you are.

You are concerned about a very serious situation just as anyone who cares about India or has any knowledge about the situation in India would be. I would not let someone's ignorance about your country wind you up about it. Just carry on sharing the information and your thoughts.

VFE, you really are a WUM when it comes to issues related to India becuase you haven't got a Clue about terrorism in India and how many people have died becuase of it in the last 25 years, yet you continue to spout your nonsense. Just lay off this topic please. you may not care about other people's sentiments but there are a lot of us here who have suffered and continue to suffer because of terrorism in India. Your patronising attitude and comments are in very bad taste.


Its nothing to do with India.

The discussion I was having was about Integration and the UK. About that fact that when you live in a Country that is your nationality and banging on about us and we in relation to India when you are actually British is one reason why the few tensions that exist in the UK do exist: because people who live in this Country act as though they are not Nationals.

Call me a WUM if you like but attacking me instead of the topic is the very thing you are not meant to be allowed to do on this forum, yet mods and the creator of the forum are allowed to do it to me? You have called me ignorant, a WUM and patrionising....are we allowed to insult people now, or is that just a Mods right?

I dont really care what to say about me, the point remains:

Its not about terrorism in a far off Country, its about integration in OUR Country.

How can I be WUMing about India when I am not talking about it?
How can I be talking in bad taste about Indian deaths when I am not talking about them?


Ban me, insult me if you like but dont pretend the reason is nothing other than the fact that someone disagrees with Ritrun and you about integration in our Country.

My one point is that when you are a National in a Country and resident there and your life is there that is where you are from: not where your relatives live and where your ancestors are from. And as well as that fact it is right that you should integrate into that Country. If you dont feel that way why would you want to live in that Country?

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby asterix » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:04 am

I don't know whatever you are saying is relevant to this topic. This topic was about how CIA, a US agency is messing about in India and the recent Pune blast could've been prevented too.

I was not having a discussing about me integrating in UK. That's not the topic. If you have comprehension problems, I can't help..

I don't know what has got to do with the personal questions you are raising about me? I'm completely at a loss.

I'll still try to stick to the topic as I didn't knew you were not discussing about India, or Indian deaths and was actually discussing my integration in UK. Which I feel patronising because I don't want to discuss about your personal issues.

I'll try to stick to the topic. I hope everybody are now aware what you were trying to do and discuss in this topic..

You still don't have clue about dual nationality what Her Highness The Queen has clearly stated. Don't you. I pity this country which has so many ignorant citizen who are unaware of there own laws. Tsk Tsk..

I'm sure you are not aware that Citizen of other countries can be citizen of UK and still have the option to whichever place they wish to. Lot's of British people are citizen in India, Australia, Canada, USA, South Africa, European countries.. Don't know what will happen to them as per your logic.

Whether I decide to settle down in UK or not, it's my decision. I might finally settle down in Canada. I don't have to take your permission. I think your ignorance is due to the fact that you have not travelled out to various countries in this World, not even during holidays (how do you like when I discuss your personal issues?).

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:10 am

asterix wrote:Since my nationality issue has been unnecessarily raised (which has nothing to do with the topic discussion), I would like to educate some ignorant people about dual nationality allowance in U.K.:

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/britis ... tionality/


Wheres your home?
Wheres your life?
Where were your children born?
Where do they go to school?
Where do you work?

The answer to all those questions is your nationality.

You are lucky enough to have dual nationality. So you have a choice over where your home is. You have chosen and its the UK. If you prefer India then you can live there and make your life there....do so. If you have decided on the UK you should integrate and 100% commit to it. Its the right thing to do. That means 'we' and 'us' is the UK, it means its with people like me. If you dont like that, make a different choice over your life and live elsewhere.

Thats simply my opinion, I have not insulted you, unlike your and Shalini's responses to me have. You have threatened to ban me because of that one opinion. Why? Its not insulting, I have not insulted you or threatened you or called you names. I have mearly expressed my opinion.

You and the Mods constantly talk about free expression of opinion up to the point of insulting a member of the forum. We are even allowed to insult public figures, call them racist and generally disparage them. Yet I am insulted and threatened with a ban because I suggest the Country you live in is your home and that you should integrate there?

In the very post I reply to you talk of 'ignorant people' and as the link is related to the one thing I have disagreed with you on the clear idea is to call me ignorant. You will deny this but its clear what you are doing. So you are allowed to call me ignorant for disagreeing with you. Fine, I dont mind. But dont be a hypocrite about it.

For your information one definition of ignorant is:

'Ignoring or dismissing the views of others'

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:11 am

asterix wrote:
I was not having a discussing about me integrating in UK. That's not the topic. If you have comprehension problems, I can't help..

I don't know what has got to do with the personal questions you are raising about me? I'm completely at a loss.



So all topics on here and all posts stick to the original topic title and post?

The thread went in a different direction. You in part did this by replying to my point. You didnt have to.

They are not personal questions. Its a point I am making. It can be applied to you based on your comments in this thread. You can of course ignore my point, or if you prefer insult me, which is the route you previously went down.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby Shalini » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:17 am

VFE, you want to talk about integration in your country, start another topic. This topic is about what is happening in India, you have no knowledge about it so you are ignorant about the facts.

Going on and on about not caring about what happens in a "third world country" in a topic related to India is frankly speaking patronising towards people who do care about what happens in India and are trying to talk about it.

Your opinions about something that you have no knowledge about and by your own admission you don't care about serves no purpose hence you are a WUM

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VijayArumugam » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:24 am

http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/video_p ... id=1210523

An interesting discussion on this topic on NDTV.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:26 am

Well if I was offerring opinions on the specific situation in the title of the thread then I would be WUMing.

But I am not, or have you not read my posts.....

The topic started on that and changed to something else. Thats what threads do. If you and Ritrun didnt want that then dont answer and ignore my posts.

I didnt go on and on about not caring about what happens in a third world Country. Read what I said in context if its not too much trouble.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby asterix » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:28 am

VijayArumugam wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/video_player.php?id=1210523

An interesting discussion on this topic on NDTV.

That's an interesting discussion. Thanks Vijay..

It's clear that CIA is deeply involved in the 26/11 case and has been clearly not allowing Indians to have full access to some very sensitive information.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby timydamonkey » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:31 am

Perhaps it would be wise to agree to disagree over this one? It's obviously a passionate subject, and the discussion's not getting anywhere so continuing to discuss it serves no further purpose. Let it lie -we do have a topic to return to.

-

I'll have a look at that link I think, Vijay.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VijayArumugam » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:43 am

This editorial from the Indian daily, "The Hindu", is equally interesting. With all due respect to B.Raman and a few others, in my view, this daily has got the best expert on global Jihad in India (Praveen Swami) in its ranks. I guess his inputs would have been taken into account before they would have constructed the editorial. This piece gives a good idea about the legal complications faced by the Indian government.

http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/editor ... 258547.ece

Behind Headley's plea bargain

Five years after he began the surveillance operation that finally guided a ten-man death squad through the streets of Mumbai in November, 2008, Pakistani-American jihadist David Headley has entered into a plea bargain with U.S. prosecutors. In India, the deal has provoked media outrage but careful study of the Plea Agreement (accessible under Resources at beta.thehindu.com) shows that claims that Headley has got off lightly are misplaced. Plea bargains in the United States work around a complex points system set up by the United States Sentencing Commission. In return for pleading guilty to all the 12 terrorism-related charges, and for meeting specified obligations for cooperation with investigators, prosecutors will recommend a reduction in sentence. In essence, Headley will avoid facing the death penalty and will not be extradited to India, Pakistan, or Denmark. However, the judge hearing the case is not bound by the sentencing recommendations — and if they are rejected, Headley will not be able to withdraw his guilty plea. Nor, unlike an approver in an Indian criminal trial, will he be granted a pardon in return for giving state's evidence. Some commentators have speculated that the Plea Agreement means Headley was a secret U.S. agent. The truth is that the U.S. repeatedly passed on substantial intelligence to India of the looming threat to Mumbai in the months before 26/11. Had Headley been the source of those warnings, he would be in the process of receiving a medal — not life in prison.

Just what has Headley — who made a similar plea bargain earlier in his troubled life, in connection with a narcotics-trafficking prosecution — promised in return for his life? Paragraph 12 of the Plea Agreement states that he will, when directed to do so by the U.S. Attorney's office, “fully and truthfully participate in any debriefings for the purpose of gathering intelligence or national security information.” In addition, he will “fully and truthfully testify in foreign judicial proceedings held in the United States, videoconferencing or letters rogatory.” This means he will have no choice but to testify in the ongoing trial of Mumbai attack suspects if called on to do so by Maharashtra prosecutors. He must also cooperate in any future criminal proceedings initiated by the National Investigations Agency on the Lashkar-e-Taiba's plot to attack the National Defence College in New Delhi. Further, Headley has agreed to “the postponement of his sentencing until after the conclusion of his cooperation.” Paragraph 8 of the Plea Agreement reveals that he has already “provided substantial assistance to the criminal investigation, and also has provided information of significant intelligence value.” This cooperation should strengthen the case against his co-accused, Tahawwur Rana, as well as key Lashkar operatives in Pakistan. Barring death-penalty enthusiasts, no one has any reason to bemoan the Plea Agreement. India's investigators and justice system must move quickly to capitalise on Headley's intelligence and testimony.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby asterix » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:48 am

Vijay, what's your views about Daud Gilani's trips to India post 26/11? Nothing to do of what happens to him now. When he toured India post 26/11, wasn't CIA aware of that? And if it was aware, why was he not flagged off to the Indian authorities. Even if the CIA had to "propect" him, I feel it amazing that they didn't knew what he was doing in India?

The Pune blast few months ago was exactly the result of Daud's visit to Pune, near the Osho Commune..

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VijayArumugam » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:56 am

Here's Vir Sanghvi's take on "The Hindustan Times".

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 21432.aspx

What does America have to hide?

Vir Sanghvi

Here is a hypothetical situation. Imagine that the Indian police arrest a man who had advance knowledge of the 9/11 plot. Not only did he work with the conspirators but he had also been sent to New York several times to conduct reconnaissance so that the terrorists would be able to successfully execute their assault.

Naturally, the US would want to extradite this person so that he could be tried in a US court for his involvement in one of the worst acts of terrorism in recent times. Assume now that India not only refused to discuss the extradition but also denied the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) any access to the suspect. “We will tell you what he is saying,” the Central Bureau of Investigation would insist. “There is no way you can interrogate him face to face.”

Take our scenario further. Imagine now that even as the US seethes at being denied access to this important link in the 9/11 case, India announces that it has done a deal with the man. He will plead guilty to all charges. So, there is no question of the death penalty under our law. Nor is there any prospect of his being prosecuted under American law. Part of the deal is that we have assured the suspect that we will never extradite him. As for the sentence, that is still to be worked out but it will be decided on the basis of the deal that we have made with the terrorist.

How do you suppose America will react?

The answers are obvious. There would be a diplomatic incident. The secretary of state would call our home minister (or perhaps our prime minister) to insist that the terrorist is handed over to the FBI. India would be accused of betraying the war on terror. How can we prosecute the man in our country, we would be asked, when the crime he was involved in occurred in America? There would be threats galore. We would be warned of a suspension of aid. Summits would be cancelled and so on.

I have spent some time outlining this scenario because it closely parallels something that has actually happened: except that in this case, the terrorist was involved in 26/11, not 9/11. And it is not India that is refusing to extradite him but America that has told us to go take a flying jump.

It is not difficult to see why the case of David Headley evokes such strong emotions among Indians. For us, 26/11 is as important as 9/11 is to Americans. The difference is that while the US knows pretty much everything it needs to about 9/11 — especially as al-Qaeda has openly taken credit for the attack — India is still trying to piece together the details of the conspiracy. It is the US that has told us that Headley made several reconnaissance trips for 26/11. Naturally, we believe that such a man not only deserves to be punished by an Indian court but that his information may hold the key to unravelling the 26/11 plot. What’s more, we suspect that Headley also suggested Poona as a potential terror target. How many other such targets did he pinpoint? Until we interrogate him, we will never know.

So, why is the US behaving in this manner? Say what you will about the Americans but the truth is that till now, they have genuinely tried to fight a global war against terror and have regularly involved the world’s intelligence agencies in this effort.



Why abandon the cooperation now? Why alienate India so completely for the sake of a terrorist? Why allow more people to be killed — in such attacks as the Poona bombing — by refusing to let Indian investigators question David Headley?

I believe that only one explanation fits these facts and that there is only one answer to these questions.

David Headley was an American agent.

When I first suggested this hypothesis on these pages, it seemed slightly outlandish but now, I am sad to see, it has become received wisdom on the subject. And each day brings us new evidence to support this thesis.

We know that Headley (who called himself Daoud Gilani in that era) was convicted on drug charges and sent to jail in the US. We know also that he was subsequently released from jail early and handed over to the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), which said that it wanted to send him to Pakistan as an undercover agent. All this is a matter of public record.

What happened between the time the US sent Headley into Pakistan and his arrest at Chicago airport a few months ago? How did an American agent turn into a terrorist? The US will not say.

There are broadly only three possibilities. Possibility one is that he remained a DEA agent but also got involved with jihadi groups while remaining on the drug agency’s rolls. Possibility two is that he was never really a mere DEA agent. In the aftermath of 9/11, when it was discovered that America had few agents within the jihadi networks, all American agencies came together to pool assets so that the US could penetrate the terror groups. It is significant that Headley was sprung from jail after 9/11 though of course the court would have to be told that it was the DEA that wanted him (rather than the CIA) because he had been arrested on drug charges.

If you stick with possibility two, then Headley was a double agent. Sent to infiltrate jihadi groups, he became a convert to the terrorist cause and betrayed his American handlers.

Both possibilities would explain why the Americans are reluctant to let us speak to Headley. They do not want him discussing his role as an American agent (whether for the CIA or the DEA) with Indian intelligence.

But there is a third possibility. One theory — advanced by The Daily Beast website and the American media themselves — is that Headley remained a US agent till the end. He was the source who told the Americans about 26/11, causing them to send us a vague warning about the attack before it happened. (Because this warning was not specific enough, our sloppy intelligence apparatus ignored it.)

If you follow this theory through, then you would have to argue, as some Indian intelligence officials do, that the Americans pulled Headley out because they suspected that Indian agents were getting wise to his identity. Far better to place him in secure American custody and to deny everybody else access than to risk having him exposed by a foreign intelligence service.

We do not have enough information to conclude with any certainty which of these three possibilities comes closest to what really happened. But of one thing, there can no longer be any doubt.

America is behaving very strangely in the David Headley case. It has something to hide. And it is scared of what Headley could reveal.

(The views expressed by the author are personal )

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby Shalini » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:03 am

VFE wrote:Well if I was offerring opinions on the specific situation in the title of the thread then I would be WUMing.

But I am not, or have you not read my posts.....

The topic started on that and changed to something else. Thats what threads do. If you and Ritrun didnt want that then dont answer and ignore my posts.

I didnt go on and on about not caring about what happens in a third world Country. Read what I said in context if its not too much trouble.


I have read your posts. You have shown your ignorance, you have made it clear this issue of of no concern to you or the west and then had a go at Asterix for being concerned about what is happening in India.

Expand your knowledge - there is a world out there that you could learn about. You might actually enjoy the experience if you got out of this box you live in.

I stand by what I said - you are showing your ignorance, have no understanding or interest in what does not concern the "West" and your only purpose in spouting whatever you are is to be a WUM.


You really need to get over the belief that the West is in some way obssessed with the petty disagreements between Pakistan and India . We really dont care as long as you keep it away from us. Our only interest is to keep the nutters out of our Countries and lives.

The US is full of people. Not evil demons. They would not want to see people die anymore than Indians would. Anyway it was their citizens and westerners in general that were targeted.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby asterix » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:22 am

As Vir Sanghvi says.."America has something to hide in Daud Gilani's case.. and it is behaving very strangely"..USA is playing a double game in South Asia..And if it conitnues to play it that way, it's going to affect them, sooner or later..

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:35 am

Shalini, you are mearly showing your inability to comprehend what I actually wrote.

Please stop calling me a WUM and ignorant, you are personally attacking me which is not allowed on this forum.

If you genuinely want to continue the discussion:

1 Actually read what i wrote
2 PM me

Otherwise please stop with the insults.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby Shalini » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:47 am

I am not insulting anybody nor do I have the inability to comprehend things. Just pointing out to you that what you have been writing shows

1 - Lack of information about things you are commenting on
2 - Inability to understand and appreciate that preaching to people on what they should do is not in good taste
3 - Continuing to go on about how the "west" does not care for what happens in India is an attempt to wind up people and a lack of respect for fellow members who do care.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:52 am

1 My opinion on integration and the views expressed on the US deliberately letting people die are as valid as anyones (and thats all I have commented on)
2 Then stop doing it then
3 When did I say that. Oh yes, I didnt.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby Shalini » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:00 pm

Maybe you should go back and try reading your own posts sometimes and see how patronising you are towards anyone who does not fit in with your own opinion.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:01 pm

Pot and Kettle Shalini, Pot and Kettle....

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby Shalini » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:06 pm

really? :lol:

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:14 pm

You entered the thread and called me ignorant and a WUM because my opinion was different to Ritruns.

Sounds pretty patronising and dismissive to me.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby Shalini » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:19 pm

Ignorance = lack of knowledge or information

WUM = Wind Up Merchant

Not because your opinion is different but because you are writing about things you have no knowledge of and because you have deliberately set out to offend Asterix by preaching to him about why he should care about what happens in Britain but not bother about what happens in another country 1000s of miles away - the country where he was born and where a lot of his family lives.

That is ignorance and winding up.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:26 pm

Yes.

So throwing them out in your first post on a subject, having not being involved in the discussion previously would count as patronising and dismissive I feel.

Especially as the discussion was one of opionions on integration so knowledge isnt really relivent other than in expoerience.

WUM seems to be anyone who disagrees with Ritrun. As opposed to deliberately saying something to wind up. For example Chris Broad is a racist or the US deliberately let the Mumbai attacks occur. However that does ignore rule 1 of the forum.....dont criticise Ritrun, however disgusting and ignorant his views.
Last edited by VFE on Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:27 pm

I didnt say he shouldnt care.

I said 'us' and 'we' relate to England when it comes to Ritrun, not India. I, in common with the majority of people in the UK, find it offensive when he calls India his Country when its actually the UK. Thats a perfectly valid opinion and in no way personal or insulting.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby Shalini » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:41 pm

Aha! so if its something that YOU don't like or agree with the member is being a WUM, but if you say something that deliberately sets out to upset someone else its expressing an opinion.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:48 pm

No, expressing an outragous opinion just to wind up is WUMing.

Expressing a different opinion isnt WUMing.

I rarely say that Ritrun is a WUM, I just get dragged in and argue back. Look how this thread started. Ritrun suggested the US knew about the attacks and let people die. I suggested that was a terrible thing to say. Remind me who expressed an outragous opinion to wind up again?

However when I am accussed of being a WUM for expressing a perfectly reasonable opinion clearly I am going to compare and contrast.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby Shalini » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:58 pm

In YOUR Opinion Asterix expressed an outrageous opinion so it was Wumming.

Yet you express opinions that are offensive to other people and everyone should just accept it because it is a "different opinion"?

Fine now we know where you stand on Your definition of opinion and WUM and we will take action as appropriate when necessary.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:08 pm

Saying the US knew specifics about Mumbai but decided to let people die is (without evidence) a WUM opinion.

Saying someone should integrate inthe Country they live in is an opinion.

But fine, call mine a WUM opinion, but remember to call Ritrun a WUM too. Or do you find that difficult.....

Incidentally I can take it that you agree with Ritrun on the US / Mumbai, integration and Chris Broad being a racist then? After all to disagree with him would be unheard of. Remember the 2nd rule....he cant be criticised or censored at any time.

Anyway, I am very bored with repeating myself to someone whose only agenda appears to be to suck up to Ritrun as much as possible. I am off to watch Liverpool get hammered.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:08 pm

Oh and take whatever action you like. You mod a forum, nothing more. It doesnt make you right.

Incidentally this does indicate a major issue with the Mod Induction. None of the new ones came running to Ritruns aid. Dont they know the rules?

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby Shalini » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:16 pm

:lmao:









606

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:18 pm

Might be a good way to end the discussion.

I am done.

:grin:

:D

Enjoy the football.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby asterix » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:32 pm

American took a twisted trail to terror

(CNN) -- The path that brought U.S. citizen David Coleman Headley to the point of pleading guilty to involvement in two international terrorism plots is complicated and twisted.

His life, in many ways, is far from the average American experience, but he's also very much a product of a typical American upbringing.

He's an unusual fusion, a product of two worlds, a rare blending of East and West. And because of his unusual background, Headley, experts say, is one of the most unusual and important American-born terrorists.

Even his eyes -- one blue and one brown -- reflect the double life he has lived almost since the day he was born.

Headley pleaded guilty Thursday to all 12 charges against him in connection with the four-day siege on India's financial capital in 2008 that left more than 160 people dead and a planned attack in Denmark.

Headley, the son of an American mother and Pakistani father, was accused of extensive involvement in planning the devastating attacks on hotels in Mumbai, which the Indian government says were carried out by the Pakistan-based terrorist group Lashkar-e-Tayyiba. At least six Americans were among the dead.

Headley, 49, was indicted last October and charged by the U.S. government for conspiracy to murder and maim people in India and provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization.

He initially pleaded not guilty to the charges, but he has changed his plea as part of a deal with the government to cooperate with investigators and possibly to avoid the death penalty he might have received if convicted on some of the charges.

In the federal courtroom in Chicago, Illinois, on Thursday, Headley told the judge that he did not dispute any of the 12 charges. By pleading guilty, he also gave up his right to appeal in the case.

He faced six counts of conspiracy to bomb locations in India and to murder and maim persons in India and Denmark, and six counts of aiding and abetting the murder of U.S. citizens in India.

The indictment against him charged that Headley scouted targets in Mumbai for more than two years to set up the November 2008 attacks. He was also accused of planning a terrorist attack on a Danish newspaper, which was never carried out. The newspaper became the target of Muslim fury in 2005 after it published cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad in a manner offensive to Muslims.

Even family asks: Who is David Coleman Headley?

Now that he's admitted to conspiracy to murder and maim in the Mumbai attack, even members of his own family are wondering who David Headley really is.

"I was really shocked. And just didn't expect something like that. And I mean such a hands-on accusation," said William Headley, his uncle, reflecting on when he first learned of the government's accusations against his nephew. "It was like you had poured cold water inside my chest."

David Coleman Headley was born in 1960 in Washington, D.C., but with a different name: at birth, he was given the Urdu name Daood Gilani.

He was the son of an eccentric, flamboyant and rebellious high society mother from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Serrill Headley; and a strict, formal Pakistani diplomat father, Sayed Salim Gilani. The couple met at the Pakistani Embassy in Washington but moved to Lahore, Pakistan, when their son was very young.

"He was the first baby I had anything to do with," his uncle William Headley said. "He was the first baby I ever touched or held or anything like that. And somewhere I have a photograph of me in my pajamas holding little Daood. ... He was a nice-looking little baby."

Fractious union of East and West

After only a few years, Daood's parents split up, an early sign of the fractious union of East and West.

The separation left Daood straddled between his traditional Muslim father and his very Western, very American mother. For a time, his mother remained in Pakistan, but she eventually returned to Philadelphia, where she opened a popular bar called the Khyber Pass. The Khyber Pass is the name of the main passage between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Daood remained in Pakistan throughout much of his childhood, and as a teenager he was enrolled for several years at a prestigious and regimented Pakistani military academy, the Hasan Abdal Cadet College.

But then his mother pulled him out of the school and brought him back to Philadelphia. There, the teen moved into his mother's apartment above the bar.

In 2006, Daood Gilani changed his name to David Coleman Headley, borrowing the family's American name, and even the middle name of William Headley's father, Coleman. The change was made, U.S. officials believe, to help Headley escape detection and travel more easily between the United States, India and Pakistan.

In an exclusive television interview with CNN in January, Headley's uncle described his disbelief in learning that his own nephew was connected in any way to the massacre in Mumbai -- disbelief that lingered until he began receiving letters from his nephew in his jail cell.

"To find an insider in my own family involved [in terrorism] -- you're not responsible for what your family does and yet you have such a close association with it, it's your blood."

Headley wrote to his uncle from jail, saying that despite his heritage, he was now 100 percent Muslim.

Headley's life has been full of twists and turns, from his dual heritage childhood -- being equally comfortable in Pakistan's Muslim circles and in Philadelphia's social scene -- to his marriage to a blond American beauty and subsequent divorce, after which he took a traditional Muslim wife.

Drug trafficking snare

In the 1990s, Headley became a major drug dealer and turned informant for the Drug Enforcement Administration after being caught, according to his family. His involvement with the DEA may have been one of the factors that pushed him toward Islamic extremism.

In 1997, he was running a video shop in New York. On February 7 of that year, he was in a midtown hotel negotiating to bring a large load of heroin from the Middle East to New York City.

But he had walked into a trap. The hotel room, on the ninth floor, was wired by the Feds. As Gilani tried to escape, he found himself surrounded by gun-toting DEA agents. It was a moment that became the ultimate turning point in his life, said his uncle.

"Daood said 'If I get free of this I'm going to commit myself to God,' " William Headley recounted. "So that is when, I would say, he became a serious Muslim."

What happened next is somewhat of a mystery. While his co-conspirator in the drug deal went to prison for 10 years, Headley was out within 15 months. His family believes the DEA was using him as their own informant, frequently sending him to Pakistan and Afghanistan to meet directly with heroin dealers.

Those trips may also have put Headley in direct contact with Islamic terror groups who use the drug trade to finance their operations. It was during this time that he may have first encountered Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, the Pakistani group that some say is now second only to al Qaeda in its global terrorist reach. The indictment indicated that Headley had moved among senior figures in Lashkar -- including Ilyas Kashmiri, who's alleged to have had contacts with al Qaeda.

Headley case called unique

The Headley case is unique for many reasons, experts say.

"It reads like a spy novel more than your typical terrorism cases," said Frank Cilluffo, who heads the George Washington University Homeland Security Policy Institute.

He says Headley was a sophisticated and valuable asset for anyone in the terrorist world, because of his ability to move easily between the East and the West.

"This is someone who clearly lived in two different worlds and grew up in two different worlds and had an awareness of both the United States -- having spent much of his adult life and later childhood life here -- as well as in Pakistan," said Cilluffo.

"Clearly, you have someone who was conflicted, even though he lived in both worlds. You get the sense that he never felt at home in either world, searching for his identity ... and we know how, unfortunately, it plays out," he added.

Headley's uncle still finds it hard to believe. He was shocked when CNN called to tell him that his nephew was pleading guilty.

The nephew he knew was not someone who could have been involved in a terrorist plot, William Headley said.

"We absolutely cannot imagine it," he said. "It's not at all consistent with anything we know at all."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... index.html

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby bolero » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:41 pm

I am actually going through his plea agreement right now. Its so interesting....I'll post when I am finished with it.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby bolero » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:46 pm

This is what the plea says on extradition.

-----------------------------


Extradition

9. Pursuant to Article 6 of the Extradition Treaty Between the United States andthe Republic of India, Article 7 of the Extradition Treaty between the United States and theKingdom of Denmark, and Article 4 of the Extradition Treaty between the United States and Islamic Republic of Pakistan, defendant shall not be extradited to the Republic of India, the Kingdom of Denmark, or the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, respectively, for any offenses for which he has been convicted in accordance with this plea. The defendant and the United States Attorney’s Office accordingly agree that, if defendant pleads guilty to and is convicted of all offenses set out in the Superseding Indictment, including Conspiracy to Bomb Places
of Public Use in India (in violation of 18 U.S.C. §2332f (a)(2)), Conspiracy to Murder and Maim in India (in violation of 18 U.S.C. §956(a)(1)), Aiding and Abetting Murder (in violation of 18 U.S.C. §2332(a)(1) and 2),
Conspiracy to Murder and Maim in Denmark (in violation of 18 U.S.C. §956(a)(1)), Conspiracy to Provide Material Support to Terrorism, in both India and Pakistan (in violation of 18 U.S.C. §2339A), and Conspiracy to Provide Material Support to Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, a foreign terrorist organization (in violation of 18 U.S.C. §2339B), then the defendant shall not be extradited to the Republic of India, the Kingdom of Denmark or the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for the foregoing offenses, 20 including conduct within the scope of those offenses for which he has been convicted in accordance with this plea, so long as he fully discloses all material facts concerning his role with respect to these offenses and abides by all other aspects of this agreement.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby asterix » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:52 pm

That's an agreement between USA and Gilani..

What about international law. Can he be tried in absentia in Denmark and India?

I think India should try to get as much information as possible from him to make a case against the LET and ISI and then file a case against Gilani for the new case of Pune blast in which about 17-18 people died recently.

Thanks Bolero, for that information.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby bolero » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:56 pm

He can be tried in absentia in India, yes , once the police file a thorough chargesheet against him (I heard this from some legal experts on television). In Denmark, I dunno (Ravi is an expert on law, he might actually dissect the fine print)

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby bolero » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:06 pm

This is more damning again from the plea agreement submitted by Gilani to the US government.

------------------------------------------

Beginning no later than in or about late 2005, and continuing through on or about October 3, 2009, at Chicago, in the Northern District of Illinois, Eastern Division, and elsewhere within and without the jurisdiction of the United States, defendant conspired with members of Lashkar e Tayyiba, including but not limited to individuals identified herein as
Lashkar Members A, B, C and D, and others, to deliver, place, discharge and detonate explosives and other lethal devices in, into and against places of public use, state and government facilities, public transportation systems, and infrastructure facilities in India, with the intent to cause death and serious bodily injury, and with the intent to cause extensive destruction of such places and facilities which such destruction would likely result in major economic loss, and defendant was a national of the United States and was found in the United States.

More specifically, in or around late 2005, defendant met with three individuals herein identified as Lashkar Members A, B and D, and received instructions to travel to India to conduct surveillance of various locations in India, including places of public use, and state and government facilities. Prior to receiving these orders, defendant had attended training camps organized and operated by Lashkar e Tayyiba on five separate occasions in or around 2002 through 2005. Starting in or around February 2002, defendant attended a three-week course and received indoctrination on the merits of waging jihad. Starting in or about August 2002, defendant attended a three-week course and received training in, among other skills, the use of weapons and grenades. Starting in or about April 2003, defendant attended a three-month course and received training in various skills, including, but not limited to, close 4 combat tactics, the use weapons and grenades, and survival skills. Starting in or around August 2003, defendant attended a three-week course and received training in, among other
skills, counter-surveillance. Starting in or around December 2003, defendant attended an approximately three month course and received combat and tactical training. On multiple occasions, following his completion of the above-described training courses, defendant advised co-defendant TAHAWWUR HUSSAIN RANA (“RANA”) of his membership in Lashkar e Tayyiba and the training that he had received.


-----------------------------------


Unanswered questions:-

1. Who are Lashkar members A, B, C & D ?
2. What now happens to his associate of Pakistani origin Tawahhur Rana ? Can India extradite him to get to the bottom of this ?
3. If A,B,C & D are identified, would Pakistan extradite them to India ?
4. If not, what would be India's further course of action ?

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby bolero » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:18 pm

This is the Denmark angle. The plea refers to one Abdur Rehman Hashim Syed (who is said to be a serving / retired ?) major in the Pakistani army.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In or about early November 2008, defendant met with Lashkar Member A in Karachi, Pakistan, and was instructed to travel to Denmark to conduct surveillance of the Copenhagen and Aarhus offices of the Danish newspaper Morganevisen Jyllands-Posten (the “Jyllands- Posten”), in preparation for an attack on the newspaper in retaliation for its publication of cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohamed. Following this meeting, defendant informed codefendant ABDUR REHMAN HASHIM SYED (“Pasha”) of his assignment. Pasha stated to defendant words to the effect that if Lashkar did not go through with the attack, Pasha knew someone who would. Although not identified by name at the time, defendant later learned this individual to be co-defendant ILYAS KASHMIRI. Pasha previously had stated to defendant that he had been working with KASHMIRI and that KASHMIRI was in direct contact with a senior leader for Al Qaeda. In or around December 2008, defendant met with Lashkar Member A and again discussed an attack on the Jyllands-Posten facility. More specifically, defendant and Lashkar Member A discussed the scope of the attack. When defendant suggested that they focus on those responsible, referring to killing the editor and cartoonist identified in the Superseding Indictment as Editor A and Cartoonist A, Lashkar Member A stated that “all Danes are responsible.”

Shortly after this meeting, defendant returned to the United States. In or around December 2008, defendant met with co-defendant RANA and, over the course of two or three discussions, advised RANA about his assignment to conduct surveillance of the Jyllands-Posten in Denmark, as well as the statement made by Lashkar Member A. Defendant further advised RANA about his conversations with Pasha and 12 Pasha’s statement that he knew someone who would carry out an attack if Lashkar did not. In or around late December 2008 and early January 2009, defendant sent emails to, and received emails from, Pasha in order to continue planning for the attack and coordinate defendant’s travel to Denmark. In or about early January 2009, defendant asked for RANA’s approval and assistance to identify himself as a representative of First World Immigration, to falsely represent that First World was planning to open an office in Copenhagen, and to gain entry to the Jyllands-Posten’s office by falsely expressing an interest in placing an advertisement for First World in the newspaper. RANA approved of the idea and agreed to provide assistance. In or around January 2009, defendant and RANA had business cards made to identify defendant as an Immigration Consultant for the Immigrant Law Center, a business name for First World Immigration. In or about January 2009, defendant traveled from Chicago, Illinois, to Copenhagen, Denmark, to conduct surveillance of the Jylland Posten offices in the cities of Copenhagen and Aarhus in Denmark. On or about January 20, 2009, defendant obtained entry to the office in Copenhagen on the pretext that he was seeking to place an advertisement on behalf of First World Immigration. Defendant also scouted and took extensive video surveillance of the area surrounding the Copenhagen office. While in Copenhagen, defendant provided one of the business cards which RANA and the defendant had made to a Jylland Posten employee. Because this card identified other business addresses for First World in New York and Canada, defendant sent an email to RANA asking him to contact those offices to make 13 sure that if Jylland Posten employees contacted one of those offices, the First World employees at those locations would not blow defendant’s cover. On or about January 23, 2009, defendant obtained entry to the Jyllands-Posten office in Aarhus, again on the pretext that he was seeking to place an advertisement on behalf of First World in the newspaper. Defendant also scouted the area surrounding that office. In or around late January 2009, defendant met separately with Lashkar Member A and Pasha in Pakistan concerning the planned attack on the newspaper and provided each with videos of his surveillance. At about the same time, Pasha provided to defendant a video produced by the media wing of Al Qaeda in or around August 2008. The video claimed credit for the June 2008 attack on the Danish embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan, and called for further attacks against Danish interests to avenge the publication of the cartoons of the Prophet Mohamed.

In or around February 2009, defendant and Pasha met with co-defendant KASHMIRI in the Waziristan region of Pakistan. Defendant discussed with KASHMIRI and Pasha the video surveillance that defendant had taken in Copenhagen and ways in which to carry out the attack. KASHMIRI told the defendant that he (KASHMIRI) could provide manpower for the operation and that the participation of Lashkar was not necessary. After this meeting, in or around March 2009, Lashkar Member A advised defendant that Lashkar put the plans to attack the Jyllands-Posten on hold due to pressure on Lashkar resulting from the November 2008 attacks in Mumbai.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby raja » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:12 pm

I don't know what hurts more - the damage that scum causes or the damage that protectors of scum cause ?
I am not an expert on law but isn't somebody abetting a criminal also guilty of crime or seen as obstructing the cause of justice ?

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby Cevno » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:08 pm

I think there is something that USA has to hide because Headley was a Cia agent turned rogue militant .He might have been invovled in terror activities which could cause harm to USA'S reputation arround the world.And also could disclose secrets about USA which it could harm them.

But to suggest that they deliberately let a specific attack happen in India and facilitated it is completely a baseless accusation to make.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby shourey » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:48 pm

I dont think USA has anything to hide.
( ofcourse USA will downplay the direct Pak ISI/Army involvement in Mumbai attacks in lieu of few Afghani Taleban that Pak will help catch. Well no one is perfect )

Its known that Daood, was earlier convicted of drug trafficking and got a ligher sentence in exchange of becoming US agent for drug enforcement agency.

Subsequently he got involved with Pak ISI/Let and became there agent . Its because of USA investigative agencies that the nexus between Dawood Gilani ( Headly ) and LeT/Pak army/ISI has become clear to the world.

I would give credit to USA on that. If India had caught it , Mr Headley would have made a mockery of the Indian judicial system, which arguably is most lenient , tolerant and crimnal friendly in the world.
Besides , India will get to question Headley and there is reason to hope he will co operate as the success of his plea bargain depends on his co operation.


Just look at how 26/11 accused Kasav, has made mockery of the judicial proceedings , even though his crime is caught on tape !!!
Last edited by shourey on Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby shourey » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:50 pm

Bolero wrote :

............

Unanswered questions:-

1. Who are Lashkar members A, B, C & D ?
2. What now happens to his associate of Pakistani origin Tawahhur Rana ? Can India extradite him to get to the bottom of this ?
3. If A,B,C & D are identified, would Pakistan extradite them to India ?
4. If not, what would be India's further course of action ?
I have followed the case closely. The answers from my understanding are
"

Answers

1. Both FBI ( USA ) and India know who those A,B,C,D are. Since so called investigations are still in progress and
and all of A,B,C,D have not been apprehended, there names are not publicly disclosed. From leaks so far, one of them is a
so called 'retired' Pak army officer and anathor active Pak army officer , who has been recently so called retired , after these disclosures.
There names obviously will be made public at some point.
Also, its a customary practice of Pak army to 'officially retire' its top officers , who are entrusted with the task of promoting terrorism against India , Afganistan.


2. Tawahhur Rana, though an accomplice of Dawood Gilani ( Headley ) , is a small part of this. He is what you may call a 'part-time' terrorist.

3. No Pakistan will not extradite anyone.

It's like asking if Pakistan will prosecute Jinnah for 5000 plus people butchered by Jinnah's mobs on the 'direct action' day when Jinnah asked his supporters to take direct action against those who oposed partition.

The Mumbai 26/11 attacks were a project of Pak army/ISI. LeT is the official terrorist wing the the Pak state.
They will cover this up in farcical judicial proceedings and continue to make mockery of justice.
As far as Pak is concerned, its criminal involvement in terrorism has brought it billions of dollars of aid from the West, China, Saudi Arabia.
No reason to change that.
Pak did not even let USA question the nuclear smuggler AQ Khan, even though Pak has been literally living off US money
for past 8-9 years.

4. India does not have any good choices.

India cannot afford to go to war with Pak. Ofcourse India will win, but its equally certain that India has lot, lot more to lose.
So India will never start any war and try its best to avoid a war-like conflict.
So far , India has stayed away from getting involved in supporting Pak regional parties that want to oppose Pak punjabi army rule/occupation
of Pakistan. The democratic political system in India, where the army and intelligence services are completely subservient to civilian democratic rule ,
makes it difficult for such political moves. The political situation in Pak is ripe for any country that wants to create trouble in Pakistan to financially support the Baluchis, Sindhi and Pakhtoon parties that are opposed to Pak army. You dont have to support terrorists , but can financially support non-violent political movements. India is reluctant to even explore that.
India believes that getting its hands dirty in supporting such parties, even though only financially, will blur the differences between India and Pakistan.

In my opinion, India should seek to clearly articulate , at all political forums, the criminal nexus between Pak government ( that means its army ) and
terrorist groups like LeT. The diplomatic campaign should be sustained and focused.
On top of that, it should increase its defenses, improve its intelligence agencies and seek to minimize any contacts with Pakistan.

It may also be time to debate if India should officially and publicly support any non violent regional political movement in Pakistan that is opposed to the
army-religion-terrorist politics of Pakistan.

Footnote : Its very revealing to see Pak press not covering disclosures about LeT/ISI and Dawwod Gilani ( Headley ) nexus. I wonder why ? They almost always refer to him as the 'chicago man' !!!! The word 'Daood Gilani' , the real name of Headley who as per his plea bargain, changed his name to hide his Pakistani identity, seems to be a banned word in Pakistan press.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby bolero » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:07 am

raja wrote:I don't know what hurts more - the damage that scum causes or the damage that protectors of scum cause ?
I am not an expert on law but isn't somebody abetting a criminal also guilty of crime or seen as obstructing the cause of justice ?


Yes

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby bolero » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:10 am

Shourey making some good points...India does not have any good options at the moment. The problem is that it appears the central government does not even seem to be making an attempt to protest....

Its like the Indian government knows they have no bargaining pull with the US so might as well let them run all over us. No self respecting nation should allow that to happen.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby bolero » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:16 am

shourey wrote:
I would give credit to USA on that. If India had caught it , Mr Headley would have made a mockery of the Indian judicial system, which arguably is most lenient , tolerant and crimnal friendly in the world.
Besides , India will get to question Headley and there is reason to hope he will co operate as the success of his plea bargain depends on his co operation.


Just look at how 26/11 accused Kasav, has made mockery of the judicial proceedings , even though his crime is caught on tape !!!


+ 1

Indian judicial system is most liberal and friendly to terrorists and waanabe terrorists.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby shourey » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:12 pm

So far , I have not doubted US commitment about exposing all those behind the Mumbai 26/11 terrorist attacks.
I have given them , the benefit of any doubt.
The prosecution of Pakistani origin US national Daood Gilani, has exposed the link between the Pak state and Lashker E Toiba operative Daood Gilani.

The text of the plea bargain for LeT operative , Daood Gilani and recent reports that US attorney general Mr Holder has assured
Indian Home minister Mr Chidambaram of making available Mr Daood for questioning in a legal setting, bolstered that argument.

However today, a statement issued by the US Ambassador to India, states that no decision has been taken by US regarding giving access to Daood Gilani !

Its a very disturbing statement. Even now I hope that this is just for political consumption as a Pak army chief, ISI chief
and foreign minister are in Washington this week , for so called stretegic talks and USA knows that Pak would be uncomfortable about India getting access to
Mr Daood Gilani.

Even if this statement is just for political manouvering, even then its despicable in that USA now seems to be weighing factors, other than publicly
revealing all the conspirators behind 26/11 carnage.


Imagine , Bin Ladin in Indian custody and India refusing to provide access to USA to question him.
What reasonable conclusions would be made of it ?

This after India provided access to US investigators to question Pakistani Kasav and two other Indian nationals on the 26/11 attack.

Questioning of Daood Gilani would reveal the Pak officers involved in 26/11 murders.
USA , has often looked the other way, as Pak army/ISI has trained terrorists against India.
Now in the Daood Gilani case, its the character of USA foreign policy and its justice system , which is on trial now.

The results will be known in next 6-8 weeks and I hope they pass it.

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby G B » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:00 am

hmm if they deport him to india it will be Afzal guru mach 2

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby asterix » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:16 pm

India to press US for Headley

NEW DELHI: India’s counter-terror cooperation with the US may have reached a critical point, with the government here concluding that the latter’s plea agreement with 26/11 accused David Coleman Headley is violative of Washington’s obligations to New Delhi under international law.

In what could potentially lead India to up its ante vis-a-vis the US over Headley, senior government functionaries have concluded after consultations with solicitor-general Gopal Subramaniam that Headley’s plea agreement, under which he will be spared death sentence and extradition to India, conflicts with the extradition and mutual legal assistance treaties between the two countries.

Under the plea agreement, Headley aka Daood Gilani pleaded guilty on 12 counts — nine of them related to the terror attack on Mumbai — in exchange for a promise that he would not be given death sentence or extradited to India.

Indian authorities have so far been trying to get direct access to Headley, an outcome they remain — as home secretary G K Pillai indicated on Wednesday —confident of despite US ambassador Timothy Roemer saying American authorities were yet to take a call on it.

The assessment was bolstered by the opinion of the solicitor-general as well as the remarks of Headley’s counsel in the US, promising cooperation with India.

Meanwhile, law minister Veerappa Moily said in Bangalore that access to the Pakistan-born jihadi was a question of when rather than whether. “One day or the other, the US will have to agree and expedite the issue that Headley will have to undergo interrogation by our agencies,” Moily said.

But the solicitor-general’s legal advice seems to have altered the scenario radically.

Solicitor general Gopal Subramaniam has concluded that Headley’s plea agreement conflicts with the extradition and mutual legal assistance treaties between India and US.

The solicitor general, who had a marathon session with U K Bansal, special secretary, internal security in the home ministry, and Sharad Chandra Sinha, head of NIA, based his opinion on Headley’s plea agreement with the US department of justice, provisions of bilateral treaties with the US as well as international law, and the thick and still-growing dossier of Indian agencies on Headley.

But it is sheer numbers that India’s case derives its real strength from. As against six American lives that were lost in 26/11, Indian toll from the barbaric terrorist attack stands at 153. In his opinion, Subramaniam stressed that India’s “sovereign” rights entitle it to try Headley first, considering that his role in 26/11 was not that of a mere accessory.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 720652.cms

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby asterix » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:22 pm

I agree with the above article.

Why Americans think that they have the authority to NOT GIVE DEATH PENALTY to a terrorist who has killed 153 Indian people? What would've Americans expected from India if it would've been a reverse sceanrio? If Indians would have had the custody of someone who had killed 153 Americans and 6 Indians, and wouldn't give the Death Penalty and wouldn't allow American investigators to question him, what would've the Americans do in that case?

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Re: David Headley case: US has let down India badly

Postby VFE » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:21 pm

The anti death penalty lobby always try and take the moral high ground:

'well they may have killed 37 men, women and children but lets be better than them, its not about revenge. And anyway they have rights'

NO.

They only thing is the possibility of errors, but lets be honest there are cases where its clear.

I also dont get the 'they are mentally ill' thing. Well yes, clearly, they killed someone. Anyone who kills is mental, its a given. They should not escape justice because of it.