Real reason America used nuclear weapons

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Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby raja » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:45 am


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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby GpeL » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:27 pm

And that was in doubt or a surprise? It is a well known fact.

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby SuperGLS » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:41 pm

Good thing we did though.

If not us, someone else would have. Might as well be the first.

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby raja » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:10 pm

Striped Lungi wrote:And that was in doubt or a surprise? It is a well known fact.


I didn't know this.

To me, this is a revelation.

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby Katto » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:43 pm

globalresearch?

you're heading into some shaky ground there raja :mrgreen:

gotta start somewhere I suppose

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby Going South » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:51 pm

Image

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby raja » Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:20 pm

Katto wrote:globalresearch?
you're heading into some shaky ground there raja :mrgreen:
gotta start somewhere I suppose


I go by content, not by source.
Is what is stated here, true or not, is the question?
Not whether it is globalresearch or SMH. :-)

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby Katto » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:37 am

raja wrote:
Katto wrote:globalresearch?
you're heading into some shaky ground there raja :mrgreen:
gotta start somewhere I suppose


I go by content, not by source.
Is what is stated here, true or not, is the question?
Not whether it is globalresearch or SMH. :-)


fair enough. most people to the left of the spectrum go by source. they've been trained to think that way. in fact the schools in this country actually teach students to go by "trusted sources"

Personally I dont know what to believe with the nukes. Some people say that Japan wasnt nuked at all, but it was firebombed in the same manner Dresden was and other Japanese cities. The level of devastation is consistent regardless of whether they've been labeled nuked or not. The Americans like to construct a lot of fantasies to promote their strength on the world stage - so who knows for sure.
Actually very little is written about the unnecessary destruction of Dresden residential areas by the British. Its not politically correct shall we say.

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby GpeL » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:41 am

Actually there was a diclosure some decade or so ago that Japan was a compromise choice. It was initially thought they wanted to drop it in Russia somewhere and it was someone changed to Japan out of fear of a more severe retaliation. I wondr what would have happened if the foolish idea had gone as originally intended. Russia would surely not have sat back and forgotten. The moment they came up with their nukes, they would have surely given USA a taste of its own medicine. Who knows what would that have started!!!

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby Katto » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:55 am

Striped Lungi wrote:Actually there was a diclosure some decade or so ago that Japan was a compromise choice. It was initially thought they wanted to drop it in Russia somewhere and it was someone changed to Japan out of fear of a more severe retaliation. I wondr what would have happened if the foolish idea had gone as originally intended. Russia would surely not have sat back and forgotten. The moment they came up with their nukes, they would have surely given USA a taste of its own medicine. Who knows what would that have started!!!


Russia was allied with the US during WWII
they were actually the decisive factor in WWII so that makes no sense

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby GpeL » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:14 am

It did not make sense to me at all.. In fact it was welcomed with a WTF comment from all and sundry.. I just was 'speculating' as to what would have happened if that was indeed some sort of an idiotic plan in the works. There was that instance when harry truman during a conference (pottsdam?) 'warned' soviets that USA had successfully tested a 'weapon' of devastating proportions.Stalin, however, was already well-informed about the U.S. nuclear program because of his own intelligence network and so was not influenced by that threat.. (All this from that article about the influence of post war reconstruction and the control of Eastern Europe and Asia).

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby GiantScrub » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:43 am

Not going to weigh in to this one, other than to point out that on the anniversary of any historical event there are always many people looking to take advantage of the attention to push some version of the truth. What actually happened will always be more nuanced than a single source can give you.

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby Katto » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:55 am

regardless of whether they were nukes or not, the fact remains a lot of residential areas were bombed to oblivion in the final phases of WWII
the reason, as with any war, there are more investment opportunities available for reconstruction in conquered foreign nations. look at the post war boom in Japan.

banks and foreign investors make a killing (no pun intended) on the rubble industry, and subsequent reconstruction. war isnt just about military expenditure, its good for business as it creates a demand and hence more transactions.

everything that happens in the world today on a global scale has some connection to creating transaction opportunities. from climate change to gay marriage, to war on terror, to war with russia, its all a business, its all a racket and you being a member of the billions of confused plebs are just being played - time and time again

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby GpeL » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:09 am

Actually GiantScrub that is what I intended to show.. i.e there are many outlet of 'facts' (and as usual never quite got to it). It was during those times that the philosophy of 'communism' took the wrong side (they opposed the war and supported the germans until hitler attacked USSR in 1941 or so breaking the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Then they again went nuts in 1947 (Truman era). All such shit came out from that outlet and was brought up time and again by some political wannabes. This article I mention (I do not recall the author) was in NYPost in about 1998ish and though not widely circulated, who ever read it had a comment or two about it. The political bigwigs I reckon chose to ignore it but it nevertheless caused a bit of talking (I even remember Larry King refer briefly to it).

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby raja » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:59 pm

Katto wrote:everything that happens in the world today on a global scale has some connection to creating transaction opportunities. from climate change to gay marriage, to war on terror, to war with russia, its all a business, its all a racket and you being a member of the billions of confused plebs are just being played - time and time again


:grin:

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby bharathh » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:27 am

Regardless of what the true reason was - it was a travesty.

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby Boycs » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:41 am

raja wrote:
Katto wrote:globalresearch?
you're heading into some shaky ground there raja :mrgreen:
gotta start somewhere I suppose


I go by content, not by source.
Is what is stated here, true or not, is the question?
Not whether it is globalresearch or SMH. :-)



the provenance of the source is as important as the content. WWI was caused by population pressure? Says who? A keynesian? Religion was a pretext not a true cause for the crusades? Says who? A Marxist?

Who says it, where when and why is crucial cause there's no such thing as fact in history. The closest you get is a date, but even then the source matters. Watch:

The battle of Hastings took place in 1066.

That's a fact, right?

But why did I say it? Why that battle? Is it because most British school children have that date drummed into them at an early age? Is it because pre-uni history is taught too empirically with dates and times, because that's the prevailing trend? Is it because history studies in the UK are too Anglo-focused? "British history is the only history" type thing? If I were French maybe I'd have the Agincourt date in my head, or roguespierres birthday. What does it say about me, that I know that particular fact? What does it say about this country?

"They" say 05 was the greatest ashes series. Who says? Everyone? Or just English people who happened to only start watching cricket in 2004 (like me).

Source origin is everything. I did my dissertation on historiography (the study of how history is studied)

I'm very sad, you see :P

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby raja » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:50 am

You can have an otherwise "reliable" source but tripping up on one particular piece.
You have an otherwise unreliable source but factually correct on one piece.

I agree that where there is doubt, source is very relevant.

But where facts are not in dispute, the source shouldn't be relevant in determining their veracity, IMO.

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby Boycs » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:21 am

raja wrote:You can have an otherwise "reliable" source but tripping up on one particular piece.
You have an otherwise unreliable source but factually correct on one piece.

I agree that where there is doubt, source is very relevant.

But where facts are not in dispute, the source shouldn't be relevant in determining their veracity, IMO.


Quite agree. Basic facts are less contentious that opinion. But as always the selection of which facts you include in a piece is a bias in itself.

And bias doesn't render an argument invalid. Because you're naturally going to have a bias if you have a viewpoint to argue. Complete neutrality is a illogical impossibility. It's just important to be aware of any agenda etc when reading a source.

Totally agree with you, raja pai

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Re: Real reason America used nuclear weapons

Postby Katto » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:44 am

one basic misrepresentation of a fact is like a butterfly effect

eg most people believe in human made climate change because they believe the reported fact that 97% of scientists agree. this reported fact is used as the foundation and closer of every argument on the topic. this reported fact is reported as undisputed whilst every other aspect is debated, nobody questions this particular fact

however there is a small problem with this 'fact'

it is false