BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby bolero » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:55 pm

I feel BCCI needs to kick out Shastri immediately. Selecting a spinner and dropping Umesh Yadav in Lord's and going with one spinner less on a turner.

For these blunders itself, Shastri needs to be kicked out as coach and Virat replaced as captain.

It may have cost this team 2 tests.

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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby Going South » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:03 pm

Problem is not with coach. in cricket esp in BCCI, coaches have no value to add for many decades, they are there just to provide sound bites and BS for media as they got no power to make any decisions.

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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby raja » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:16 am

Part of the blame must be with Kohli also.
His captaincy was not upto the mark in this series.

Kohli is a class act as a batsman - but as captain I have often found him wanting.
Even as captain of RCB, he has made questionable decisions.

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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby Paddles » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:06 pm

raja wrote:Part of the blame must be with Kohli also.
His captaincy was not upto the mark in this series.

Kohli is a class act as a batsman - but as captain I have often found him wanting.
Even as captain of RCB, he has made questionable decisions.


Shastri is a "yes man" for Kohli.

All selection decisions stem from Kohli.

The "Kumble era" is gone.

I think India performed well and the result was largely as expected.

I wouldn't make any captaincy changes ahead of Australia, myself. I think India is on target.
Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsman
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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby bolero » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:16 am

Paddles wrote:
raja wrote:Part of the blame must be with Kohli also.
His captaincy was not upto the mark in this series.

Kohli is a class act as a batsman - but as captain I have often found him wanting.
Even as captain of RCB, he has made questionable decisions.


Shastri is a "yes man" for Kohli.

All selection decisions stem from Kohli.

The "Kumble era" is gone.

I think India performed well and the result was largely as expected.

I wouldn't make any captaincy changes ahead of Australia, myself. I think India is on target.


Kumble would not succumb to bullying. Shastri is a yes man of Kohli.

And Kohli, although a very good batsman is a poor captain.

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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby bolero » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:18 am


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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby bolero » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:31 am

Shastri may say anything for me there are 4 key factors that decided the series

1. Selection blunders. Picking a spinner like Kuldeep on a pitch conducive for fast bowling and dropping Umesh who would have benefited most from the Lord's pitch. Similarly picking up an extra seamer instead of a spinner on a spin friendly wicket. This effectively cost India 2 tests. I don't know which guy is making these epic blunders.

2. As has been stressed earlier in the thread, Sam Curran and Moeen Ali were the difference between the 2 teams. The England lower middle order added useful runs in every match. If England lower middle order, tail had failed, India would have won the series. Margins were close.

3. Murali Vijay etc is past his sell by date. We need to overhaul big. Prithvi Shaw should have been played. You can't expect Kohli to rescue the team always. It shows the other batsmen have been passengers, except occasionally Pujara. Clearly batting at home is no indicator as batting away.

4. Relook at Ashwins place in the side on overseas tracks. He has underperformed big. Moeen Ali, a part timer bowled way better lengths than him.

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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby bolero » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:42 am

I would like to stress on another point, the lack of enough left handed batsmen in Indian side, a point which I have made ad nauseam. See most good inter national sides the world over like Aus, Eng, NZ they have atleast 3 left handlers.

It helps upset pre-designed bowling line and lengths. See what Rishabh Pant did.

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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby bolero » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:01 am

Having said Pant is a good addition, his keeping still gives me the shivers.

Pant is not a natural keeper unlike Saha but he is a far better batsman than Saha, besides being a left hander.

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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby Paddles » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:29 pm

bolero wrote:Shastri may say anything for me there are 4 key factors that decided the series

1. Selection blunders. Picking a spinner like Kuldeep on a pitch conducive for fast bowling and dropping Umesh who would have benefited most from the Lord's pitch. Similarly picking up an extra seamer instead of a spinner on a spin friendly wicket. This effectively cost India 2 tests. I don't know which guy is making these epic blunders.

2. As has been stressed earlier in the thread, Sam Curran and Moeen Ali were the difference between the 2 teams. The England lower middle order added useful runs in every match. If England lower middle order, tail had failed, India would have won the series. Margins were close.

3. Murali Vijay etc is past his sell by date. We need to overhaul big. Prithvi Shaw should have been played. You can't expect Kohli to rescue the team always. It shows the other batsmen have been passengers, except occasionally Pujara. Clearly batting at home is no indicator as batting away.

4. Relook at Ashwins place in the side on overseas tracks. He has underperformed big. Moeen Ali, a part timer bowled way better lengths than him.


Ali kept his bowling very simple. Just kept aiming for the footmark outside the right hander. A few more left handers in the Indian team would have presented more of a challenge for Ali.

Ashwin and Jadeja is an interest tussle. But I think the biggest change was finally dropping Pandya (but it was late in the series).

Both you and I would not have played Pandya in England for obvious reasons - Australia is a different kettle of fish where Pandya has much stronger claims to play.

Umesh is not ideally suited to England anyway where he just relies on pace and back of a length. Matt Henry did that enforcer role in his early tests and was a total disaster in England (now he is creaming County scene by bowling full and hitting the seam). BK was a sore miss, especially with his batting ability. Bumrah too did his intl reputation no damage with this series as he climbs the totem poll of fast bowling reputations. Put simply, English conditions do not favour enforcer role type bowlers.

If India is truly to adopt a horses for courses selection philosophy, which I have no issue with, there needs to be a critical assessment of what a player brings to any match conditions. Yadav and Pandya may be better options in India or Australia, but Shami, Bumra and Sharma had the lovely control and wrist position to exploit English conditions with seam and swing. But I have watched first hand Boult look supreme in England, to then be bullied in Australia (until the lights came on at Adelaide). Australia requires some more brute force for bowlers to succeed as England know all too well.

Pant struggled big time with byes. Big time. Everyone seems to focus on catches taken or not, but those easy boundaries down leg still add for the batting team whether there is a nick on them or not. That said, I don't think he will have the same issues in Australia, where he will find the pitches more juicy as a batsman too. I think I'd keep him on for Australia test 1 and see how he goes.

Anything less than series win in Australia is a failure. The Australian batting line up has not ever looked this weak. The 1980's has Wessells, Boon, Jones and Border. This is the weakest batting line up I have seen Australia put out ever (I may need to compare to Bob Simpson's WSC depleted team). This is no disrespect to Aussie players, if NZ lost KW and Taylor, we'd look a rabble too.
Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsman
A third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby bolero » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:47 am

Paddles wrote:
bolero wrote:Shastri may say anything for me there are 4 key factors that decided the series

1. Selection blunders. Picking a spinner like Kuldeep on a pitch conducive for fast bowling and dropping Umesh who would have benefited most from the Lord's pitch. Similarly picking up an extra seamer instead of a spinner on a spin friendly wicket. This effectively cost India 2 tests. I don't know which guy is making these epic blunders.

2. As has been stressed earlier in the thread, Sam Curran and Moeen Ali were the difference between the 2 teams. The England lower middle order added useful runs in every match. If England lower middle order, tail had failed, India would have won the series. Margins were close.

3. Murali Vijay etc is past his sell by date. We need to overhaul big. Prithvi Shaw should have been played. You can't expect Kohli to rescue the team always. It shows the other batsmen have been passengers, except occasionally Pujara. Clearly batting at home is no indicator as batting away.

4. Relook at Ashwins place in the side on overseas tracks. He has underperformed big. Moeen Ali, a part timer bowled way better lengths than him.


Ali kept his bowling very simple. Just kept aiming for the footmark outside the right hander. A few more left handers in the Indian team would have presented more of a challenge for Ali.

Ashwin and Jadeja is an interest tussle. But I think the biggest change was finally dropping Pandya (but it was late in the series).

Both you and I would not have played Pandya in England for obvious reasons - Australia is a different kettle of fish where Pandya has much stronger claims to play.

Umesh is not ideally suited to England anyway where he just relies on pace and back of a length. Matt Henry did that enforcer role in his early tests and was a total disaster in England (now he is creaming County scene by bowling full and hitting the seam). BK was a sore miss, especially with his batting ability. Bumrah too did his intl reputation no damage with this series as he climbs the totem poll of fast bowling reputations. Put simply, English conditions do not favour enforcer role type bowlers.

If India is truly to adopt a horses for courses selection philosophy, which I have no issue with, there needs to be a critical assessment of what a player brings to any match conditions. Yadav and Pandya may be better options in India or Australia, but Shami, Bumra and Sharma had the lovely control and wrist position to exploit English conditions with seam and swing. But I have watched first hand Boult look supreme in England, to then be bullied in Australia (until the lights came on at Adelaide). Australia requires some more brute force for bowlers to succeed as England know all too well.

Pant struggled big time with byes. Big time. Everyone seems to focus on catches taken or not, but those easy boundaries down leg still add for the batting team whether there is a nick on them or not. That said, I don't think he will have the same issues in Australia, where he will find the pitches more juicy as a batsman too. I think I'd keep him on for Australia test 1 and see how he goes.

Anything less than series win in Australia is a failure. The Australian batting line up has not ever looked this weak. The 1980's has Wessells, Boon, Jones and Border. This is the weakest batting line up I have seen Australia put out ever (I may need to compare to Bob Simpson's WSC depleted team). This is no disrespect to Aussie players, if NZ lost KW and Taylor, we'd look a rabble too.


Agree with most points.

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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby raja » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:26 pm

Sorry guys, not been here the last few days.

I agree with the points above.

This is a great chance for BCCI to win a Test series in Australia.

Australia bowling is decent (assuming everyone's fit) - but not as dangerous as England in England, in my opinion.

Even last time, from what I remember, BCCI didn't do too badly with the bat. Just that Smith hammered them everytime. And Warner at times. Neither is there this time.

Rahul, Dhawan, Rahane are far more likely to find Aussie conditions to their liking than England. Pandya too.

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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby Katto » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:07 am

indeed, Warner and Smith's replacements will score zero runs for the entire series

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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby Paddles » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:19 pm

So I was reading this week that Lyon plans to bowl ugly in Asia from now on, instead of bowling overspin like he has done so brilliantly in Australia and NZ, he will bowl more like Jadeja and drive the ball into the pitch with sidespin to catch the batsman on the crease.

Who is the best spinning option for India in Australia? Kuldeep, Mishra, Jadeja, Ashwin...

You guys have tons to choose from. But if Pandya bats 6 - are you more limited to Jadeja or Ashwin for their batting contribution?

I'm not sure Ashwin puts a lot of revs on the ball (top or side), he seems to float it up and get batsmen beaten in India and Sri Lanka as well as anyone, though.

Who will the spinner be? It must be tempting at some point for touring nations to Australia to just flag the spinner unless at the SCG. Sometimes I think the selectors think it overly essential - especially when touring Australia.
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Re: BCCI in England 2018: 5-Test series

Postby Going South » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:32 pm

jadeja seems to have turned a new leaf after benching him. he also adds value to the team with his top-class fielding. my vote.