The Ashes (Australia vs England): 3rd Test; Dec 14-18, 2017 at Perth

[squarecut]

Temperament and fighting spirit is what has separated Australia from England in this series. As a long time supporter of Australia in Ashes, I am quite pleased with the result.

[raja]

At the start of the series, if someone had told you Malan and Vince would do better than Root and Cook, you'd have laughed.

I too read them wrong - they're better than I thought, and are taking the fight to the Aussies.

That was a brute of a delivery to get rid of Vince, otherwise he was batting really well.

Now if only Root and Cook can come back into some sort of form in these last two Tests, England can still win the remaining two Tests and return with a 2-3 scoreline. Ok, so the Ashes are lost, but 2-3 doesn't look too bad. I maintain that the Aussie batting is suspect - even if they've managed to find a hero (or two) almost every time until now. It's still far from dependable.

[Mick180461]

Its 5 out all out for England in this series, they are averaging just 12 runs per wkt after the 5th wkt falls. So much for Englands supposedly very long batting line-up full of All-rounders.

[Mick180461]

At the start of the series, if someone had told you Malan and Vince would do better than Root and Cook, you'd have laughed.

I too read them wrong - they're better than I thought, and are taking the fight to the Aussies.

That was a brute of a delivery to get rid of Vince, otherwise he was batting really well.

Now if only Root and Cook can come back into some sort of form in these last two Tests, England can still win the remaining two Tests and return with a 2-3 scoreline. Ok, so the Ashes are lost, but 2-3 doesn't look too bad. I maintain that the Aussie batting is suspect - even if they've managed to find a hero (or two) almost every time until now. It's still far from dependable.

Don't disagree with what you have said Raja. The difference between these sides are the Batting of Smith, the extra Pace of the Aussie quick men and a Spinner who is light years ahead of the opposition. Vince looks a decent player, Woakes looks overrated, was under the impression he was pretty Sharp in pace, Overton reminds me of Angus Fraser. I think England need to have a real think about retaining both Anderson & Broad in the side, they are both getting long in the tooth and may be time to tape one on the Shoulder, in Overton & Roland-Jones they have some good young quicks
The thing about Cook is while he's only 33(Xmas day) I get the feeling he is an old 33 and has been going nonstop in International Cricket since 2006, how much is left in the Tank? He has nothing left to prove to anyone and I wouldn't be surprised to see him retire from International Cricket after this series and maybe have a go in the T20 Leagues.
Changes for Melbourne.
Australia same 13
England Wood for Woakes, Crane for Overton(injured)

[baggygreenmania]

Aussies have played very well though

Is it time for the ECB to do something along lines CA is doing to redress the abysmal record we have when we tour the UK. Introducing the English Dukes ball to our domestic competition is not the complete panacea but it has been a moderate success with ball dominating bat in last half of Shield season. ECB could experiment with hard Aussie like decks and use the Kookaburra ball in domestic matches as well. Ok the climates are different.. but something has to be done to prepare Ashes tourists coming to each other's shores and avoid embarrassment every four years..

[Leo]

Congratulations Australia.

[baggygreenmania]

Root looked and sounded shot to bits mentally in his press post mortem . Is captaincy detracting from his performance? We all know how Smith performed when given the reins of the Baggies..his performances skyrocketed. He thrived on the extra responsibility..and still does. It is early days but Root scored the princely sum of 67 runs from his three Tests. (Smith a lazy 429). He looked totally lost at times trying to devise ways to remove Smith..specially and the Marsh brothers who amassed around 400 runs between them.

[Boycs]

It’s not just captaincy that burdens your batting as captaincy of a losing team I reckon. Root will recover and get stronger but he will burn out captaincy wise in the end. Everyone does.

[Boycs]

And Root must have scored more than 67 runs in three tests baggy because he’s made two half centuries

Edit: he’s made 176 runs. 67 is his high score. But still pitiful run making from him.

[Shambles]

Three England players stand in the dock.
Cook, Broad, Moeen. All need to be dropped.
Cook has been pretty awful since the previous Ashes yet several who averaged above him got the chop. Guilty as charged, send him down!
Broad has been insipid with ball & bat, an imposter. Guilty as charged.
Moeen. Even worse than the first two. 50 lashes! Dont ever be so poor again.
Moving forward we have to bring in an opening partner for Stoneman. Bring in Curran & Wood for Broad & Moeen. If we simply dont have a spinner then why play one? Root & Malan will be better than Moeen & Crane.
Root up to 3. He's not a great captain but we dont have anyone else. He needs to front up & perform.
Moving forward, has Trevor Bayliss been an improvement for us? I dont think so. One day coach perhaps yes, but not for Test Cricket.
We've got Chris Silverwood coming in as bowling coach, looking forward to that. Need a proper Test Cricket coach. e need to separate the two forms of the game.
What planet is this Raja guy on?????
Well played Australia..!!

[Boycs]

Three England players stand in the dock.
Cook, Broad, Moeen. All need to be dropped.
Cook has been pretty awful since the previous Ashes yet several who averaged above him got the chop. Guilty as charged, send him down!
Broad has been insipid with ball & bat, an imposter. Guilty as charged.

Comment about Cook is reasonable though I doubt he needs to be dropped - we don't have a replacement. A weak 2017 averaging mid-30s with only one hundred (243 against WI) but averaged over 40.00 in 2016 and against SA this year showed his worth blunting the new ball (something we've sorely missed) even if he didn't make the big scores he prevented collapses and allowed our then-powerful middle/lower order to churn out big scores.

Broad hasn't taken a five-for in two years apparently, which shocked me. A big concern. Batting fallen away since he was hit in the face by whoever it was.

I've commented on your Moeen reference below

Bring in Curran & Wood for Broad & Moeen.

Curran I'd like to see given a run at some point. Wood on the other hand I'm not convinced so far. 10 Tests is a fair shake and he's averaged over 40 with the ball and keeps breaking down. Don't think he has a future.

If we simply dont have a spinner then why play one?

Not an unreasonable suggestion, he's out of nick with both bat and ball (and too weak a spinner to be the main one in Australia) but 1000 runs at 46 and 26 wickets at 28.93 in 2016 suggests he's not to be disposed of long term, even if they alter his role.

I went on and on about how he would fail in Australia before the series started. It was pretty obvious to all.

Root up to 3. He's not a great captain but we dont have anyone else. He needs to front up & perform.

Totally agree

What planet is this Raja guy on????

Raja loathes England, he is the most extreme reverse-jinxer and comedian-about-cricket that you will find here. He is in no way being serious.

[Verity]

The difference is the bowling attack really, Broad has been useless as always in Australia and very little impact from the rest.

[Shambles]

Boycs. I'm not sure of Wood either (dont think he's the brightest tool in the box), but we dont have many options! Roland-Jones definately if he were available. Obviously a fit & firing Stokes would make a difference. Cook for me is a huge weight of negativity, has been for 4 years & this cant be positive for Root as captain. We have to move on. Players with hunger please! Not sure Bayliss helps as he doesnt view potential new players in county cricket. I dont know, so many people with such differing views. We've clearly neglected the Test playing side recently. Who was the last genuinely fast bowler we had?

[baggygreenmania]

And Root must have scored more than 67 runs in three tests baggy because he’s made two half centuries

Edit: he’s made 176 runs. 67 is his high score. But still pitiful run making from him.

MY bad.. got my figures arsed up. Sorry about that. Still no where near enuff runs for a player of his class.

[baggygreenmania]

Cook has been pretty awful since the previous Ashes yet several who averaged above him got the chop. Guilty as charged, send him down!
I reckon a bloke who has played 150 tests, accumulated the best part of 12,000 Tests runs (almost 3000 more than next best) and has been the rock at the top of England batting for over a decade deserves to leave on his own terms. But I am a sentimental old bugger. As my online mate Mick keeps telling me "there is no room for sentimentality in sport".

[baggygreenmania]

Root up to 3.
Gotta say I am surprised Root is not batting at #3. Was always of the opinion your best batsmen occupied the most vital spot in the batting order. A bloke with 5,499 Test runs from 63 matches at the superb average of @52 should bat at #3. It is a no brainer...

[Boycs]

Root up to 3.
Gotta say I am surprised Root is not batting at #3. Was always of the opinion your best batsmen occupied the most vital spot in the batting order. A bloke with 5,499 Test runs from 63 matches at the superb average of @52 should bat at #3. It is a no brainer...

They always seem reluctant because they think at three he'd be exposed to the new ball too early (as we haven't got an opening pair which when combined is enough to see it off). They seem to think that if he is at four at least run making will be easier when he gets in and it maximises his run getting. But if we're always going to be 35/2 then may as well put him up there.

[Yorkshire]

Root up to 3.
Gotta say I am surprised Root is not batting at #3. Was always of the opinion your best batsmen occupied the most vital spot in the batting order. A bloke with 5,499 Test runs from 63 matches at the superb average of @52 should bat at #3. It is a no brainer...

S smith he need to bats at 4 because Khawaja at 3 ,So it dose not not matter for everyone
even smith getting better at 4 but yes Root lost his Golden touch plus 50 after 50 per innings Sequnce

[baggygreenmania]

Root up to 3.
Gotta say I am surprised Root is not batting at #3. Was always of the opinion your best batsmen occupied the most vital spot in the batting order. A bloke with 5,499 Test runs from 63 matches at the superb average of @52 should bat at #3. It is a no brainer...

S smith he need to bats at 4 because Khawaja at 3 ,So it dose not not matter for everyone
even smith getting better at 4 but yes Root lost his Golden touch plus 50 after 50 per innings Sequnce

Steve Smith batted at #3 for most of his second career. Only last year or so he has gone to #4 as Khawaja began to show the consistency and application needed for #3. Figures of Smith's record at #3 are not to hand.. but they were fantastic. Often steadying the ship after early loss.

[raja]

Raja loathes England, he is the most extreme reverse-jinxer and comedian-about-cricket that you will find here. He is in no way being serious.

Just want to clarify, it is only in sport that I like to see England lose.
It's a 1974 thing - been carrying this chip on my shoulder for the last 43 years.

Otherwise, I have nothing against England. In fact, I like England - and have a lot of English friends.
I love the British sense of humour and have a huge amount of respect for Britain, in general.

My comments here shouldn't be taken seriously at all. They're almost always tongue-in-cheek.
I don't claim to be an analyst of the game, or even particularly knowledgeable about it.
I'm here mainly to have fun, engage in banter - and generally pull others' legs.

There are others here who are far more knowledgeable and analytical about cricket than I am.

[Yorkshire]

S smith he need to bats at 4 because Khawaja at 3 ,So it dose not not matter for everyone
even smith getting better at 4 but yes Root lost his Golden touch plus 50 after 50 per innings Sequnce

Steve Smith batted at #3 for most of his second career. Only last year or so he has gone to #4 as Khawaja began to show the consistency and application needed for #3. Figures of Smith's record at #3 are not to hand.. but they were fantastic. Often steadying the ship after early loss.

Amazing talented player stev smith is Right now, in test cricket but he is too poor in t20i format

[baggygreenmania]

Took me a while to work you out raja. But your explanation clarifies things. I for one enjoy your posts and you are welcome on the Aussie thread anytime you wish. Can England win one of the two remaining tests?

[Katto]

Raja isn't the only one who engages in from time to time

[bolero]

Raja isn't the only one who engages in from time to time

I dont know if fellow posters are witness to the comments between Katto and myself when Australia and India were in the thick of a keenly contested match. The reverse jinxing was so much you would tend to believe its a battle between Waqar Younis and Darren Gough.

[bolero]

My take on the Ashes .

1. Hazlewood emerged as the key strike bowler for the Aussies. I always though of Hazlewood as someone you could lose your wicket against if taken lightly. He has graduated to becoming a strike bowler bowling better than both Starc and Cummins. He took wickets at all the critical moments that changed the complexion of the game.
2. Steve Smith - the run machine. I thought India was his bunny, but he takes a fancy to the English bowling too. With his quirky batting stance, few imagined he would score like this. Not a great captain, but an outstanding batsman.
3. Broad looks past his sell by date. His batting is bad. Anderson is good only on England / New Zealand pitches where he moves the ball like a dolly.
4. Alastair Cook is having a very bad patch. Root looks dazed as a captain. England has to escape falling into disarray. Malan, Stoneman look promising.

[Loose halo]

The bowlers have been the difference.

Which bowling attack would you rather face ?

Hazlewood is no better than Starc or Cummins how often do you see pace bowlers take it in turns to lay on a streak?

Sydney will be interesting for the three local quicks.

[Mick180461]

The bowlers have been the difference.

Which bowling attack would you rather face ?

Hazlewood is no better than Starc or Cummins how often do you see pace bowlers take it in turns to lay on a streak?

Sydney will be interesting for the three local quicks.

Depends on where you are playing, in Australia with the Kooka ball the English attack. On a dreary English day under overcast conditions with the Dukes I would rather face the Aussies than Jimmy & Broad, don't forget its only 2 years since Broad bowled Australia out before Lunch for 60.

[Mick180461]

The bowlers have been the difference.

Which bowling attack would you rather face ?

Hazlewood is no better than Starc or Cummins how often do you see pace bowlers take it in turns to lay on a streak?

Sydney will be interesting for the three local quicks.

They are hunting as a Pack, they don't care who takes the wkts as long they take all 20 for less than 550-600 runs.

I will now well and truly rub in for all you English supporters, one of the BBL commentators on Aussie TV said it poured rain within 1/2 hour of Woakes getting out on Monday.

[Katto]

Raja isn't the only one who engages in from time to time

I dont know if fellow posters are witness to the comments between Katto and myself when Australia and India were in the thick of a keenly contested match. The reverse jinxing was so much you would tend to believe its a battle between Waqar Younis and Darren Gough.

I copped a lot of flak for it too
Some are a little slow on the uptake.

[bolero]

Took me a while to work you out raja. But your explanation clarifies things. I for one enjoy your posts and you are welcome on the Aussie thread anytime you wish. Can England win one of the two remaining tests?

Raja is a hardcore Australian supporter in the Ashes. Don't go by his posts.

[Loose halo]

The bowlers have been the difference.

Which bowling attack would you rather face ?

Hazlewood is no better than Starc or Cummins how often do you see pace bowlers take it in turns to lay on a streak?

Sydney will be interesting for the three local quicks.

Depends on where you are playing, in Australia with the Kooka ball the English attack. On a dreary English day under overcast conditions with the Dukes I would rather face the Aussies than Jimmy & Broad, don't forget its only 2 years since Broad bowled Australia out before Lunch for 60.

I was posting re the current series and the reason for England's plight.

[baggygreenmania]

someone please tell me what this icon means?

[baggygreenmania]

Teams losing by inngs after scoring 400+ in 1st innings of a Test:
England v Australia, Oval, 1930
Sri Lanka v England, Cardiff, 2011
England v India, Mumbai, 2016
England v India, Chennai, 2016
Pakistan v Australia, MCG, 2016
England v Australia, Perth, 2017

England features majority times in that stat.

[baggygreenmania]

England at Perth since 1990/91:
Lost by 9 wkts, 1991
Lost by 329 runs, 1995
Lost by 7 wkts, 1998
Lost by inngs & 48 runs, 2002
Lost by 206 runs, 2006
Lost by 267 runs, 2010
Lost by 150 runs, 2013
Lost by inngs & 41 runs, 2017

Perth and Brisbane are England graveyards.

[baggygreenmania]

Most runs in a Perth Test for England:
194 D MALAN, 2017 (140+54)

I was impressed by Malan in the lead in games. Another Brit with Saffer genes.

[Loose halo]

:rj: someone please tell me what this icon means?

Reverse jinx.

raja's ashes posts for example.

[baggygreenmania]

Gotcha.

[Loose halo]

Wumming is also popular.

It is an acronym meaning Wind-Up Merchant. It refers to someone who posts on message boards and newsgroups with the intention to cause as much disruption as possible by goading others.

Mock battles in this forum are usually started by wumming.

[baggygreenmania]

Ian Botham was among Australia's most-vocal critics last month, but now admits England have been "outmuscled and pushed around the park by a very good" side during the Ashes.

Gotta chuckle at this. Do you also recall Beefy that four years ago you said something similar and predicted a 5-0 win to England. You wore masses of egg on face after that series. When confronted by the media after the 5-0 shellacking then Beefy looked shocked and embarrassed and tried to avoid answering questions. Will he never learn.

[baggygreenmania]

Wumming is also popular.

It is an acronym meaning Wind-Up Merchant. It refers to someone who posts on message boards and newsgroups with the intention to cause as much disruption as possible by goading others.

Mock battles in this forum are usually started by wumming.

Are you referring to Katto and Paddles?
WUP merchants could also be called trolls. They were widespread on my last sports forum. Not saying for a moment there are any trolls here.

[Katto]

Paddles winds up himself. Minimal effort required

[Boycs]

Sometimes I have to remind myself that paddles isn’t being personally disparaging he’s just up for a debate. On anything.

Watch

HEY PADDLES!

*what?*

FIAT ECONOMIES DONT WORK!

Sit back and watch