New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:47 pm

That 97 is top quality so far by Johnny in the context of England’s otherwise weak innings and sharp NZ bowling, plus being smacked in the head hard enough to knock his helmet off.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:38 pm

JB 101, England 307 all out

Southee six and Boult four

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby raja » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:14 am

Although defeat beckons, I'll take consolation from the fact that at least we didn't have the ignominy of a sub-100 score.

Was just looking at a few stats:
This is Stokes' 41st Test.
Looking at Trevor Goddard,

Stokes 41T: Batting -> 2520runs - 35.49 ; Bowling - 95W - 33.94
Goddard 41T: Batting -> 2516 runs - 34.46 ; Bowling - 123W - 26.22
Stokes has a far better bowling SR though. Just 60balls per wicket, compared to Goddard's 95.
Suggests that Stokes doesn't get much of a bowl (he's often 4th bowler, whereas Goddard used to open the bowling.)

Also,
Watling 54T - 2807 - 38.99 (although incomplete)
Bairstow 52T - 3257 - 39.24

One could say Bairstow's the better batsman, but stats suggest, not by much.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:21 am

Yes the Sky commentary made a similar comparison about JB.

We had NZ five down for sweet FA but they’ve clawed back in

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby bolero » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:32 am

At 36/5, a crushing defeat for NZ beckoned.

But its not that bad now. England though are clearly on course to win.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby raja » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:39 am

For all the flak Wood received before this Test (and admittedly his past performances weren't particularly impressive), he's redeemed himself considerably in this Test.

England always seems to have plenty of fast bowling options.

Which reminds me, is Finn still in the mix for England?
It's been a while since we've seen him in a Test.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby raja » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:40 am

CdG gone!
1-1.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:51 am

raja wrote:For all the flak Wood received before this Test (and admittedly his past performances weren't particularly impressive), he's redeemed himself considerably in this Test.

England always seems to have plenty of fast bowling options.

Which reminds me, is Finn still in the mix for England?
It's been a while since we've seen him in a Test.


How has he? He hasn’t taken any wickets.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:57 am

Southee wants to have a slog, nothing wrong with that to be fair

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:59 am

Haha that sums up wood perfectly. Leg trap set. Two fielders on the boundary, and Southee edges it high and it goes between them for a boundary.

Wood just does not take wickets even when wickets are on offer.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:03 am

Broad and Jimmy have bowled well, but it falls flat after the new ball eases off because our third bowler doesn’t pack a punch.

Leach appears to have kept it tight. Wouldn’t expect wickets in only the second day, but excited for the fourth innings.

England need to try and pounce as the light fades!

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Going South » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:41 am

bolero wrote:At 36/5, a crushing defeat for NZ beckoned.

But its not that bad now. England though are clearly on course to win.

ha.
good fight back.
BJ watling man of match for me.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby raja » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:06 am

Boycs wrote:
raja wrote:For all the flak Wood received before this Test (and admittedly his past performances weren't particularly impressive), he's redeemed himself considerably in this Test.

England always seems to have plenty of fast bowling options.

Which reminds me, is Finn still in the mix for England?
It's been a while since we've seen him in a Test.


How has he? He hasn’t taken any wickets.


That's the whole point.
I have a huge amount of respect for England bowlers who bowl their hearts out, bowl a lot of good deliveries - but don't take wickets. :grin:

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:45 am

Ah I see, you were making a raja-point rather than an actual point :P

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Shambles » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:47 pm

So far Wood does'nt seem to have made an emphatic point to the selectors. The best third seamer we've had recently is still Toby Roland Jones, who I reckon would have gone really well in Australia & certainly here. But Wood could still be an option, although if Jamie Porter recovers full fitness, we should take a look at him. Both of those are better Test options than Woakes, although both Overtons are still in the mix. We have plenty of options but few with real pace, hence the selection of Wood.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby bolero » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:30 pm

England on the way to level the series.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:59 pm

Doesn’t erase the ignominy of 58-all-effing-out does it.

Wonder what Cook will do. I think he’ll stick it out until the home season to see if he can go on the back of a more respectable home run of scores. This winter has been pretty forgettable other than one albeit massive score

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Tinsel » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:10 am

NZ 42 for 0 (24 overs) bad light stops play, too dark, not looks like they re-return today

Raja/Bolero
Great news, tomorrow 98 overs will be bowls, game starts at 3.30am. IST
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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby raja » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:37 am

Why is that great news?
England are going to level 1-1, so nothing to be happy about.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:43 am

England need three New Zealand need 100+

Leach has two.

20 overs left

Good stuff

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:49 am

I get wanting to throw Root an over but if Wagner’s on strike why not give him some broad or jimmy?

Or perhaps this is an end swap

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:53 am

Gloved over the slips! Bah!

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:55 am

Still only seven down I think NZ have salvaged the draw and a 1:0 series win

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby bolero » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:20 am

Remarkable draw.Hard fought by NZ and Paddles favourite player Sodhi

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby bolero » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:21 am

England let an opportunity slip.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Paddles » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:35 am

bolero wrote:Remarkable draw.Hard fought by NZ and Paddles favourite player Sodhi


He isn't my favourite player, not even in his stronger formats, but that was a great effort by him in giving NZ a test series win.

The best part about it, is that Sodhi was dropped from the ODI team by coach Hesson and told to strengthen his batting, as it was costing him further opportunities for selection. He was the 3rd choice spinner this summer in the test and odi team, behind stronger batting of Santner and Astle.

And Sodhi went away and worked on his batting. Santner got injured. Then Astle got injured. Sodhi gets a chance to play. Watching Hesson go to congratulate him after the game, and Sodhi giving him a warm embrace of a big long hug is one of those feel good moments that sports provides. Sodhi knows that he has achieved something brilliant that will be be long remembered and admired by NZ cricket fans.

It is tricky for the selectors balancing Santner, Astle and Sodhi. From what I've seen this summer, there is a good argument that Astle is the best test player (as he is more likely to get wickets than Santner and CDG bowls good containment spells), Santner is unarguably the best odi player, and Sodhi is still a very good t20 player, with good odi attributes but just doesn't bat as well as Astle or Santner at 8 who if one spinner is the mould, are the preferred options until NZ finds a quality fast bowling allrounder. Quite interesting how this selection dilemma unfolds in the future.

The sad thing for Ish, as great as his batting was, is the no wickets in the test. Doesn't help get him a game in tests anytime soon.
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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Tinsel » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:53 am

Congratulations Nz supporter: winning test series vs England at home after 34 years.Southee player of match plus Trent Boult player of the series.
Last edited by Tinsel on Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Paddles » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:57 am

Tinsel wrote:Congratulations Nz supporter: winning test series vs England after 34 years.Southee player of match plus Trent Boult player of the series.


NZ won in England in 1986.

It is New Zealand's first series win at home vs England since 1983/84.
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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby raja » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:38 am

:dance: :clap; :uhoo: :banana: :dbanana: :aha: :crazydance: :band: :macarena: :yoohoo: :monkey:

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!

We won the series!!!

Such a wonderful feeling, winning a series against England. :grin:

Congrats, Paddles and other NZ supporters here.

I was tense when we were 7 down and there were still plenty of overs to go - but credit to Sodhi and Wagner for hanging in there.

So what does this now mean for England's recent overseas performance record?

Last tour of India - lost
Last tour of Australia - lost
Last tour of NZ - lost

They still won in SA though.

In my mind, England is still No.1.
In all formats of the game.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:32 am

Paddles where have you been I expected you to be all over this series

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Paddles » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:17 am

Boycs wrote:Paddles where have you been I expected you to be all over this series


Personal issues, but as I told you in advance, England were by no means no clear favourites to win ;)
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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby raja » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:21 am

Any reason Stokes bowled just 4 overs in this innings of almost 125 overs?
Is he injured?

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New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Going South » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:23 am

we won???
ROFL.
ANYONE who play against England = “we”

congrats to all kiwi fans. You are the saviors of the continent’s pride that has hit rock bottom in March 2018.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Going South » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:26 am

England's recent overseas performance record

Last tour of India - lost
Last tour of Australia - lost
Last tour of NZ - lost

if it were any other country, captain, manager & coaches would be axed and replaced with fresh blood.

what do we see now ?

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:24 pm

raja wrote:Any reason Stokes bowled just 4 overs in this innings of almost 125 overs?
Is he injured?



Injured

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Shambles » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:01 pm

“Going South” is exactly where England’s Test side is heading. Urgently need to rectify a lot of wrongs. Questions..... Joe Root as captain? It’s not working is it. Trevor Bayliss? He’s just not developing the Test side. I think finding replacements for the two of them will solve a lot of issues, & certainly give us back a world class batsman.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:18 pm

Graeme Swann insisted even years ago that making Root captain would be a disaster

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Going South » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:09 pm

not all good players make good captains.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby raja » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:35 am

True.

From all my years of following cricket, I've found reasonably successful captains tend to fall in one of two categories.
(Of course, finally you're only as good as the quality of your team, but assuming other things being same (quality of team, quality of opposition), the captaincy style then becomes relevant in getting it to deliver).

1) Personally highly ambitious and hungry for success. These guys lead by example, they demand a lot from their own selves, they hate losing - and this rubs off on the team. They might be brash, self-centered - but they wear their team jersey with great pride.
Other players tend to raise their game, just cos the captain himself is so hungry (and demanding!).
Examples:
------------
Kevin Pietersen (was unfortunately sacked as captain after just 3 games)
Saurav Ganguly
Steve Smith
MS Dhoni
Virat Kohli

2) The "man manager". These guys get along great with the rest of the team - they make effort to make everyone feel he's liked and belongs. As a result, they themselves end up being respected and generally likeable. They put emphasis on team effort, they're usually very disciplined because they want the rest to be too. They hate losing too (no one likes losing!), but their way of showing it is different. They're much quieter than Type-1, but not necessarily less effective.
Examples:
------------
Rahul Dravid
Graeme Smith
Stephen Fleming
Faf du Plessis
Mahela Jayawardene

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby bolero » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:09 am

I have a 3rd captain attribute

Win at all costs.Be ruthless, no quarter given, none asked for.

Douglas Jardine
Hansie Cronje
Ajay Jadeja

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Paddles » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:31 am

Martin Crowe is in the first group, but also noted for his cricketing intelligence, trying new things not on a whim, but with careful planning and forethought, innovative. Not noted widely as a man manager, though, as he divided non city folk. Jardine shared this planning and intelligence trait, although took it to deplored by many levels with his ruthlessness.

The quintessential man manager is Mike Brearley, Botham or Gower are quoted as saying he had a degree in people. Many claim he brought the best out of Young Beefy by keeping him happy.

I'm not sure Dhoni belongs in group 1, I think he is more group 2, but you should know Indian cricket better than I do.

Put the Chappell brothers in group 3 too. Lloyd also. And Viv. Steve Waugh too, although he was widely noted as very self average happy and group 1, he viewed sledging as 'mental disintegration'.

AB was group 1 imo. Taylor group 2. Coney group 2 despite his spat with Hadlee. I guess Howarth was group 1.
Last edited by Paddles on Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:45 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Paddles » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:41 am

Tinsel wrote:
bolero wrote:I have a 3rd captain attribute

Win at all costs.Be ruthless, no quarter given, none asked for.

Douglas Jardine
Hansie Cronje
Ajay Jadeja

Why this topic here?
Thread expired on April 3rd


Who cares - it is interesting.
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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:32 am

It’s damn rude when he posts things like that I’ve deleted it

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Shambles » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:35 am

Perhaps we need a third shift from Peter Moores as coach? Hes pretty good at bringing new younger players into the senior side, although results have always been his problem. I think Bayliss should step down.

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Re: New Zealand vs England: 5 ODI & 2 Test; February 25 to April 03, 2018 in New Zealand

Postby Boycs » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:42 am

I know Ashley Giles is well thought of in the county circuit, and I hear that Lehmann might be looking for work?

Moores in a team and coach set up that doesn’t include Kevin Pietersen is always a plus.

Andy Flower was our main man until KP wrecked that too