The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby bolero » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:13 am

Cummins getting reward finally. I have seen him bowl well without luck. This time lucky to be beneficiary of bad batting.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Leo » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:19 am

So, Cook is gone!!!! :think:
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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Katto » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:54 am

pitch is a road again?

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:23 am

Not bad. 190-odd for three. Really hope Root makes it to a ton.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:31 am

200 up now and Root ticks over past 70.

Is this gentle upward curve in England performances an acclimatisation thing? Or an easing of pressure thing once the ashes were already lost? Or have Australian inadvertently losened their grip?

Probably a combination. These calls from England about being robbed of a win by a flat pitch are just daft. It may have been flat, but you wouldn’t have scored enough runs to get close to causing an upset if it hadn’t been flat. Both teams play of these pitches, dammit.

Anyway, 205/3

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:55 am

Root gone on the penultimate ball! Boundary boundary then a lazy flick into the mitts of square leg!

Yes we should praise his 83, but his loose dismissals in sight of a century are becoming a serious issue.

Well played but Gower-like exasperation for England fans. And he exposes England to a collapse at the end of the day - no night watchman for bairstow - and risks squandering a good day.

Argh!

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:57 am

Lbw bairstow! Not out! Review!

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:57 am

Ah going miles down. Phew.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:58 am

Interesting. Gave it not out based on an inside edge without checking snicko. Meh. Missing leg anyway.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:00 am

Classy drive to the cover boundary by bairstow. Confident. Good to see Australia pitching it up though. England bowlers take note.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:02 am

Edged and gone!

Fking Root you’ve flaked and wrecked this good day for us. Well played for 83 but your slack has cost us our good day.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:04 am

England walk off five down, bairstow exposed with a night watchman and now he’s gone too.

I’m completely incensed by Roots dismissal. And the NW decision - who’s call was that? His? Three overs left and a new ball?

Ruins a good day (which I slept through) with a crap half hour (which I woke up to watch)

I’m going to have a grumpy breakfast now

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Paddles » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:17 am

Boycs wrote:Root gone on the penultimate ball! Boundary boundary then a lazy flick into the mitts of square leg!

Yes we should praise his 83, but his loose dismissals in sight of a century are becoming a serious issue.

Well played but Gower-like exasperation for England fans. And he exposes England to a collapse at the end of the day - no night watchman for bairstow - and risks squandering a good day.

Argh!


Gower-like?

Root imo is far from the lazy left hander laconic non-fitness training, dismissed so hire a plane and buzz the ground, talent dripping, zero f's given, English inflated expectation frustration that was one of the enigmatic* batsmen to the play the game. Gower would hit his first ball for 6 if it felt like it. Well before Afridi made it fashionable.

*But I personally understand Gower's approach - he's just oft described this way by cricket conservatists and traditionalists. Had Gower been a then contemporary West Indian- he wouldn't have been anywhere near as famous for exasperation. And would have probably averaged more.
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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Yorkshire » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:37 am

Boycs wrote:England walk off five down, bairstow exposed with a night watchman and now he’s gone too.

I’m completely incensed by Roots dismissal. And the NW decision - who’s call was that? His? Three overs left and a new ball?

Ruins a good day (which I slept through) with a crap half hour (which I woke up to watch)

I’m going to have a grumpy breakfast now

Jee sounds good at 230 for 3.Breakfast now? You are in other country, I see.
With Johnny gone,Malan need to bats till Anderson returns to the crease

Do you think England manges 350 tomorrow ?

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:29 am

Paddles wrote:
Boycs wrote:Root gone on the penultimate ball! Boundary boundary then a lazy flick into the mitts of square leg!

Yes we should praise his 83, but his loose dismissals in sight of a century are becoming a serious issue.

Well played but Gower-like exasperation for England fans. And he exposes England to a collapse at the end of the day - no night watchman for bairstow - and risks squandering a good day.

Argh!


Gower-like?

Root imo is far from the lazy left hander laconic non-fitness training, dismissed so hire a plane and buzz the ground, talent dripping, zero f's given, English inflated expectation frustration that was one of the enigmatic* batsmen to the play the game. Gower would hit his first ball for 6 if it felt like it. Well before Afridi made it fashionable.

*But I personally understand Gower's approach - he's just oft described this way by cricket conservatists and traditionalists. Had Gower been a then contemporary West Indian- he wouldn't have been anywhere near as famous for exasperation. And would have probably averaged more.


Gower like in the developing perceptions that he is casting away his innings too often after reaching fifty without issues. Of course both gower and Root were/are great players who should be praised for reaching the fifty too, but there’s no escaping pundit perception is there? And for both of them the perception was it was a mental reason not a technical one. What technical gap causes you to get out after fifty?

I initially thought this fifty thing with Root was more a result of him scoring more fifties, rather than converting fewer hundreds, than the other golden bats of the current era. And therefore I took it to just be a sign of his strength: he scores fifties and some hundreds whereas others are scoring more hundreds when they reach fifty but don’t reach fifty so often as they make more ducks etc.

However for the first time I’ve seen the current conversion stats and Root is at 25%. It’s noticeable low compared to the 37%-55% or the smith/kohli/KW/et al. of roots contemporaries and therefore I guess it has to be a true aberration.

It’s got to have a source somewhere and like I say how can it be a technical one? And given the ever growing sample size in terms of innings batting, which makes the impact of the “he just happened to get a good ball” event smaller, how can it be circumstantial? It’s more and more likely to be something mental I have to say.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Loose halo » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:46 am

The real sin was Root getting out with a few balls to go before stumps.

Plain effing stupidity.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby bolero » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:53 am

Late strikes have match in balance, England were cruising at one stage.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Paddles » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:53 am

Boycs wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Gower-like?

Root imo is far from the lazy left hander laconic non-fitness training, dismissed so hire a plane and buzz the ground, talent dripping, zero f's given, English inflated expectation frustration that was one of the enigmatic* batsmen to the play the game. Gower would hit his first ball for 6 if it felt like it. Well before Afridi made it fashionable.

*But I personally understand Gower's approach - he's just oft described this way by cricket conservatists and traditionalists. Had Gower been a then contemporary West Indian- he wouldn't have been anywhere near as famous for exasperation. And would have probably averaged more.


Gower like in the developing perceptions that he is casting away his innings too often after reaching fifty without issues. Of course both gower and Root were/are great players who should be praised for reaching the fifty too, but there’s no escaping pundit perception is there? And for both of them the perception was it was a mental reason not a technical one. What technical gap causes you to get out after fifty?

I initially thought this fifty thing with Root was more a result of him scoring more fifties, rather than converting fewer hundreds, than the other golden bats of the current era. And therefore I took it to just be a sign of his strength: he scores fifties and some hundreds whereas others are scoring more hundreds when they reach fifty but don’t reach fifty so often as they make more ducks etc.

However for the first time I’ve seen the current conversion stats and Root is at 25%. It’s noticeable low compared to the 37%-55% or the smith/kohli/KW/et al. of roots contemporaries and therefore I guess it has to be a true aberration.

It’s got to have a source somewhere and like I say how can it be a technical one? And given the ever growing sample size in terms of innings batting, which makes the impact of the “he just happened to get a good ball” event smaller, how can it be circumstantial? It’s more and more likely to be something mental I have to say.


I don't give a lot of weight to conversion rates. I'd rather have a batsman who makes 50 every innings than a batsman who makes a tripple century not out followed by 6 failures.

Stephen Flemming is a player with really poor conversion rates. Still a better bat overall than Mathew Sinclair.

Gower presumably played the same way from 0 to 50 as he did 51 to 80. He just got out. Mark Waugh is accredited with 'getting bored' after doing his role satisfactorily. Both of them were stroke makers. For me, I believe stroke makers live and die by the sword.
Last edited by Paddles on Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby bolero » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:55 am

Boycs wrote:
Paddles wrote:
Gower-like?

Root imo is far from the lazy left hander laconic non-fitness training, dismissed so hire a plane and buzz the ground, talent dripping, zero f's given, English inflated expectation frustration that was one of the enigmatic* batsmen to the play the game. Gower would hit his first ball for 6 if it felt like it. Well before Afridi made it fashionable.

*But I personally understand Gower's approach - he's just oft described this way by cricket conservatists and traditionalists. Had Gower been a then contemporary West Indian- he wouldn't have been anywhere near as famous for exasperation. And would have probably averaged more.


Gower like in the developing perceptions that he is casting away his innings too often after reaching fifty without issues. Of course both gower and Root were/are great players who should be praised for reaching the fifty too, but there’s no escaping pundit perception is there? And for both of them the perception was it was a mental reason not a technical one. What technical gap causes you to get out after fifty?

I initially thought this fifty thing with Root was more a result of him scoring more fifties, rather than converting fewer hundreds, than the other golden bats of the current era. And therefore I took it to just be a sign of his strength: he scores fifties and some hundreds whereas others are scoring more hundreds when they reach fifty but don’t reach fifty so often as they make more ducks etc.

However for the first time I’ve seen the current conversion stats and Root is at 25%. It’s noticeable low compared to the 37%-55% or the smith/kohli/KW/et al. of roots contemporaries and therefore I guess it has to be a true aberration.

It’s got to have a source somewhere and like I say how can it be a technical one? And given the ever growing sample size in terms of innings batting, which makes the impact of the “he just happened to get a good ball” event smaller, how can it be circumstantial? It’s more and more likely to be something mental I have to say.


I remember we used to play ' book cricket ' when we were young. Gower used to be my star batsman along with Botham for England.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:58 am

Paddles wrote:
Boycs wrote:
Gower like in the developing perceptions that he is casting away his innings too often after reaching fifty without issues. Of course both gower and Root were/are great players who should be praised for reaching the fifty too, but there’s no escaping pundit perception is there? And for both of them the perception was it was a mental reason not a technical one. What technical gap causes you to get out after fifty?

I initially thought this fifty thing with Root was more a result of him scoring more fifties, rather than converting fewer hundreds, than the other golden bats of the current era. And therefore I took it to just be a sign of his strength: he scores fifties and some hundreds whereas others are scoring more hundreds when they reach fifty but don’t reach fifty so often as they make more ducks etc.

However for the first time I’ve seen the current conversion stats and Root is at 25%. It’s noticeable low compared to the 37%-55% or the smith/kohli/KW/et al. of roots contemporaries and therefore I guess it has to be a true aberration.

It’s got to have a source somewhere and like I say how can it be a technical one? And given the ever growing sample size in terms of innings batting, which makes the impact of the “he just happened to get a good ball” event smaller, how can it be circumstantial? It’s more and more likely to be something mental I have to say.


I don't give a lot of weight to conversion rates. I'd rather have a batsman who makes 50 every innings than a batsman who makes a tripple century not out followed by 6 failures.

Stephen Flemming is a player with really poor conversion rates. Still a better bat overall than Mathew Sinclair.


I’d agree if roots high frequency of fifties compensated for his lower conversion rate, but do they? Does he score more fifties than his contemporaries?

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Paddles » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:02 am

Boycs wrote:
Paddles wrote:
I don't give a lot of weight to conversion rates. I'd rather have a batsman who makes 50 every innings than a batsman who makes a tripple century not out followed by 6 failures.

Stephen Flemming is a player with really poor conversion rates. Still a better bat overall than Mathew Sinclair.


I’d agree if roots high frequency of fifties compensated for his lower conversion rate, but do they? Does he score more fifties than his contemporaries?


Wow? Does he have to be the best batsman in the world? Or just the best batsman he can be?

He's a fine player. But why force him to be the best in the world to be satisfied with him?

He doesn't play year in year out on the roads Kohli and Smith do. Why even expect him to make all the big scores they do when in England he can win a match with a 80 in troubling conditions. Heck - even a 40 odd can be valuable at times.

Cook scored 244* in a draw on a road in Melbourne. He scored a sub 100 vs Safrica that set up in the England win on a greenie when overcast. Which was the better knock? Which was the more valuable knock?

When I say Munro ought to be given a go at tests, I don't care how he scores his runs. He scores runs. He will attack and counter attack. He won't likely defend for almost an entire day like Faf. But he will score runs. Whether he scores enough is for him to prove to the selectors if ever given the chance. Now if we had Faf in FC waiting for a chance, I may or may not prefer Faf to Munro. But we don't - so its a pointless debate to me. I'd rather a proven run getter plays than someone who looks like a test archetypal Wisden textbook prototype of how batters ought to bat and fails in getting tuns.

When I said Raval ought to be given a go in tests, I didn't care how he allegedly compiled his average of 1 and 2 big scores a season , he scores runs. For the record - still no test centuries, that is no big scores, and I care little cos he averages a valuable 40+ every innings. No big scores but lots of runs and many new balls made old before the middle order bat as his wicket falls.

Raval and Munro are polar opposites in how they bat - but they both have a potential role to play in a batting line up. And I care little if Warner scores more hundreds than Raval - I care more that Raval is the right selection for NZ. If the player themselves uses foreign player comparison to motivate themselves to improve - I'm all for it so as long as doesn't result in player detriment. But that's a choice thing.

End of the day, I'd rather be the fan of a team that wins instead of the fan celebrating the world's best batsman in a team that doesn't. And I enjoy celebrating player success - but I prefer team wins.

Before I die I want to see NZC win a world cup (thats 50 overs - not 20) and win a test series vs SA. More test wins vs Straya anywhere and in England are very enjoyable. I really care much less where KW ranks in the fab 4 when they retire. I want a World Cup win already! Safrican cricket fans will understand this who suffer the same 1992 pains - and so will the few English fans with a mind broader than the Ashes.
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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:34 am

Wow? Does he have to be the best batsman in the world? Or just the best batsman he can be?


Such is the kind of questions we can enjoy debating here. Why can't he strive to be the best batsman in the world? I'm happy to debate the whys and where-fors :)

But moving to Vince for a moment after I've just cast an eye over this:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/ ... nce-career

James Vince is not the new Michael Vaughan.

Vaughan was picked with a dire record because England were trying to find batsmen to help them while they were in arguably their worst ever period. In the end, for all his success in Tests, Vaughan only averaged five more in that format than in all first-class cricket. Like many players, Vaughan's best period with the bat came between the ages of 27 and 33, a period of time in which his overall first-class average was 44.7. When he was older and younger it was 33.

To think that because Vince is also upright, graceful and has a bad first-class average, he will also come good in Tests is optimistic. Batsmen don't usually make more runs in Tests than in first-class cricket; some young batsmen do, as they are picked on potential, some older players do, as they are picked when they are in career-best form. But on average, your first-class career gives a pretty good indication of what you will do in Tests.


I also throw this argument into the faces of those who misguidedly have picked Mason Crane.

And as for Vince, I remain an unconvinced as everyone who seems to have half a brain. Malan I will admit took me by surprise and he might end up being a regular feature in 2018. But as for Vince, we are far beyond the "he's showing he has what it takes at this level, just waiting for his first big score" stage, and we're in "he doesn't have what it takes".

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Paddles » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:18 pm

Boycs wrote:
Wow? Does he have to be the best batsman in the world? Or just the best batsman he can be?


Such is the kind of questions we can enjoy debating here. Why can't he strive to be the best batsman in the world? I'm happy to debate the whys and where-fors :)



Oh he's more than welcome to if it improves his play. But if he's already number 1, it will possibly stagnate him.

But as a fan - why expect him to be number 1? You may reasonably expect the best 5 or 6 local batsmen are selected, and you may expect them to do their best and hope they reach if not expect that they try to reach their potential. But if that potential is less than say Bradman, they doesn't mean you should be dissatisfied with them or compare them negatively to Bradman, cos they're not Bradman. And they're not playing all the same games and same attacks as Bradman.

As fans we may debate the best batsman. But that doesn't mean we should hold our players to account for merely not being the best of their global contemporaries. Players striving for excellence and fans celebrating excellence are not the same as fans expecting our players to be the best or have the best records. Heck - even if you have Bradman in your tram - are you gonna curse the 4 or 5 batsmen with him in the team for not being Bradman?

Root is a champion player. Who cares if his conversion rate is lower than the rest of the fab 4? It doesn't make him a worse player than he is. And the remaining 3 aren't available to play for England.

Now you may wish him to the be the best of the 4. He may want to too. But that won't happen by way of comparing their past scores now. It will be as a result of him scoring more valuable runs in the future than they do.

Raja oft voices his non-rating of Ross Taylor globally. I celebrate Ross Taylor is the 2nd best available batsman in the NZ team right now and a NZATG. Would I rather have Smith or Root at 4? Sure if it meant more wins for NZ, but NZ doesn't. So why care for the comparison? Do I believe Ross is continually searching to improve and do I believe he is rightfully picked in the middle order? Yes. That satisfies me (as I don't see any obvious flaw in his game that he isn't seeking to remedy.)

Cook isn't on numbers as good as Root. I celebrate Cook as a globally great opening bat. The best? Sometimes. Not always. But a great player nevertheless.

Boult and Wagner aren't half as good as Hadlee or Bond. But they strive and are rightfully selected. I care little if Starc takes more 5 fors as long as they keep taking wickets as they try and see best, seek to improve and are rightfully selected or dropped. I cared much much much more when Boult lost his swing after England 2015 than how many more wickets than Steyn, Amir or Starc took. In fact - I couldn't care less how many more wickets they took. I was far more upset that the NZ ace bowler lost his fitness before an important series than the results his competitors took more favourable to his.

Now Southee when he has not been trying his best, bowling dumb and slower - that has really peeved me off. Henry bowling short and dumb - that has peeved me. Bracewell and Henry being given far too many tests keeping Wags out - yups, peeved me. Niccolls poor and continued shot selection of his weaker shots in tests - yups, peeves me. So does his selection in the team to be honest.

I don't expect any team playing to have 11 players from the world team. But I expect the 11 of any team to be the best available reasonably, and be reasonably trying their best.

Reasonable expectations and reasonable comparisons. I care about my team winning. But I don't care if the best batsman or bowler is in the opposition and not in my own team. I am not at all surprised that Munro and Sodhi have gotten to number 1 in t20 but I never compared them to prior numbers 1s as a goal. Munro doesn't play like Kohli and I don't want him too. Kohli is too slow for my tastes in t20 first innings. Sodhi isn't Tahir (or Badree) and I like him spinning the big turning leg break - which they don't do. Doing it differently to the previous best has got them to number 1. But more importantly - they and the rest of the team took NZ back to number 1 despite touring India. Now if they could just get NZ the 2019 World Cup win, that would be something worth really cherishing. Do I care Guppie, KW, Santner or Boult are not number 1? Nopes - not at all. As long as they keep producing lots of wins for NZ.

Train smart, play smart and get wins. Should players care which opposition individual is better? Its a team game. Leave that for the fans to debate. Don't need Khan, Hadlee, Dev and Botham when you have Holding, Croft, Roberts and Garner performing in 1 team.

You think Spainish fans care that Novak or Federer are better than Nadal off clay when the open is on a clay surface and not grass? Root at home ought to be celebrated by the English. Not compared to India or Straya. Now if it makes you feel better, just do what Strayans do - make your home conditions the internal benchmark and standard. G Boycott gave you the starter kit. Noone in the fab 4 out averages Root in England.
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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:08 pm

It’s just getting to me that roots conversion rate is worse than those of comparable ability. I’m not asking: why is his ability 65 skill points not 75? More why is he making 50 point decisions when he is a 75 player. I can see a subtle difference between arguments.

But I take your point. Great players are great players even if there’s a perceptible rung above their own sometimes that they don’t quite get to all the time.

Oh well. The jeopardy the team was put in by his dismissal perhaps adds to the irksome-ness.

I nearly popped my aorta when he slog-pulled that short ball down the fielders throat last test.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Paddles » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:31 pm

Boycs wrote:It’s just getting to me that roots conversion rate is worse than those of comparable ability. I’m not asking: why is his ability 65 skill points not 75? More why is he making 50 point decisions when he is a 75 player. I can see a subtle difference between arguments.


Heh, but you're begging the question that he is a 75 point player . You're also assuming that that conversion rates are indicative of being better when the most difficult time to bat is between 0 and 10 runs and gets progressively easier. Its not celebrated like conversion rates, but being a good starter is a batsmanship skill. Greater reliability is oft underestimated for more unreliable peak performance. As fans of cricket, we like peak performances, and there is significant overlap between the best players and best performances, for example - most cricket fans know the 4 biggest test hundreds for instance. Yet few would suggest that Hayden is in the top 10 batsmen ever. In fact many knowledgable Aus fans prefer Langer to Hayden for his better reliability in tricky conditions. Hayden being thought of as a flat track bully.

Langer 23 100s 30 50s at 45
Hayden 30 100s 29 50 at 50

Conversion rates are about turning 50s into hundreds and not 'missing out', but its a personal milestone and 99 makes lil difference to the team than 100 does, yet matters massively to the fans and players.
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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:18 pm

Indeed, I own a book "The Greatest Test Centuries" but not the greatest Test 99s.

I think we ought to list them somewhere, the best 99

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:45 pm

Those two late strikes by Haze and Starc have broken the back of the Pom batting.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby baggygreenmania » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:53 pm

Finally something in the deck for our bowlers. Hazlewood again the pick of the Aussie attack. He only conceded 10 runs from his first 8 overs. Talk about building pressure. Created the prized wicket of Cook. Was going at under 2 runs an over for much of the day. Cummins is getting back some of his old fire. Good news with the Saffer tour coming up. Starc was ordinary. Is he still carrying that heel injury?

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby baggygreenmania » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:17 am

Butterfingers!!!!

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby baggygreenmania » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:59 am

Have our quicks forgotten how to bowl the yorker?

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby baggygreenmania » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:00 am

C'mon Cummins.. these are nuisance runs you are handing the Poms now. Pitch it up man.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby baggygreenmania » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:23 am

England post 346. Another good contribution by their tail.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:21 am

How’s crane bowling then?

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby bolero » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:37 am

England tail showed spine.If England had folded under 300, it would have been advantage Australia

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby bolero » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:09 am

Will this test be the turning point for Khawaja ?

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Verity » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:31 am

So why did they drop Renshaw? Bancroft is shit and completely out of his depth, should’ve showed faith in a young Renshaw.
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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Verity » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:32 am

bolero wrote:Will this test be the turning point for Khawaja ?


What do you mean? He always goes well at home? This summer his been shit though.
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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby bolero » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:52 am

Verity wrote:
bolero wrote:Will this test be the turning point for Khawaja ?


What do you mean? He always goes well at home? This summer his been shit though.


In crunch matches. Of course, this can hardly be called a crunch match , series is over.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Yorkshire » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:36 am

Boycs wrote:How’s crane bowling then?

Crappy first slips denied him maiden wicket and Broads 400th wicket, even Johnny too looks Care-less

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:09 am

Yorkshire wrote:
Boycs wrote:How’s crane bowling then?

Crappy first slips denied him maiden wicket and Broads 400th wicket, even Johnny too looks Care-less


Did they? Talk about misery upon misery.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:21 am

I was just playing with Statsguru, trying to see if teams these days are batting more poorly overseas than ever before, but inadvertently have found a nice little Alastair Cook stat:

Over the last ten years, Cook has 1,378 runs at 59.91 in Australia. This is the most runs scored by any player in a single country that is away from home.

Amla is next with 1086 runs scored in England, but then in third place is Cook again with 1052 runs in India.

We can factor in that Ashes tests are among the most regular away Test matches relating to only two countries, so the highest people in this list are going to be Ashes players you would think. However though Cook in the Ashes is at the top, you have to go down to number five to find the next Ashes player (Clarke in England with 961) and then seventh and eighth are also Ashes.

We also have to factor in that 2008-2018 is pretty much coinciding with Cooks career, bar a year or so at the beginning.

Kohli has averaged 62 in Australia too.

But yeah, only three people have scored over 1,000 runs in a single away nation venue in the last ten years, and Cook has two of these records (India and Australia) and Amla the other one (England).

If you take away the time constraint then it goes all to pot :P with Bradman at the top, the Hobbs, Border, followed by a non-Ashes in Viv Richards, then Hammond, Gower, Sobers, Sachin in Australia, Richards again before you get to Cook in Australia once more.

I love me some stats

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Yorkshire » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:25 am

great 1378 on Road how many SRT scores on Australian wicket

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:34 am

900ish I think it was but fewer tests I suspect

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Shambles » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:53 pm

Only watched the BT highlights. Crane looked like he bowled usefully & got a few to turn (as did Moeen). Neither looked like they were causing issues. Bloody Smith again! Looks like he's got another ton on the conveyor. We havent got enough runs. You would have to back Australia for a minimum 100 lead. Again its difficult to see England taking 20 wickets. Hope I'm wrong but I reckon Australia get 150+ lead & win easily on 4th innings. Wish I could feel a bit more positive.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Mick180461 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:28 pm

Verity wrote:So why did they drop Renshaw? Bancroft is shit and completely out of his depth, should’ve showed faith in a young Renshaw.

Renshaw's form was so bad he was unpickable, couldn't hit the ball off the square. Bancroft was in great form going in.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Boycs » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:26 pm

Apparently TMS were purring over Cranes ballerina action. Well they’ve done the same thing about Vince and he’s consistently failing. If his ballerina poetry was as effective as it may be picturesque then he’d have wickets and averages in first class cricket to reflect that. FC averages aren’t a joke, they’re a consistent reflection of at least the baseline ability of a player. What’s the variation in stats from F.C. to international? Minimal, occasionally slightly but barely more than minimal. A 37 FC batting average might become a 40 at test level in the odd case. But otherwise averages certainly don’t improve with the ball and they definitely don’t drop from a terrible 40:00+ To the sub-30 you expect at test level, or even the 30-32 that is the highest you dare accept for a front line bowler of any variety in a Test team of even middleweight ability like England.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Loose halo » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:51 pm

Mason Crane can turn the ball he has rev fingers. I think he will make it he is still to turn 21 (February)

Boycs cried wolf loud enough for the England selection panel to hear him.

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Yorkshire » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:07 am

First of all congratulations to Uzzie for 2000 Test runs
Secondly cong.to smith who batted 34 hours in on going Ashes now

Congratulations to Uzzie Khawaja on his 6th Test Century in 29 Test he consolidate his position in next Australian Tour To Southafrica

:macarena: :abanana: :nanaparty:

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby Yorkshire » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:34 am

Loose halo wrote:Mason Crane can turn the ball he has rev fingers. I think he will make it he is still to turn 21 (February)

Boycs cried wolf loud enough for the England selection panel to hear him.

Poor Fielding ( slip) denied him much awaited maiden wicket,he can turn the ball.he could be impressive in India

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Re: The Ashes (Australia vs England) 5th Test: Jan 4-8, 2018 at Sydney

Postby baggygreenmania » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:38 am

Stop presses.. Steve Smith is out! He was only 18 shy of becoming just the fourth player in Ashes history to post four centuries. Other three are The Don, Hammond and Sutcliffe