South Africa vs India: 3 Test Series; January - February, 2018

Who would you want to see win?

South Africa
5
50%
India
5
50%
 
Total votes: 10

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Loose halo » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:45 am

afghankhan wrote:
raja wrote:Great to see AK here too. :grin:

Well, players like Pandya will be even more like fish out of water if you ask them to potter around and wait for a bad delivery to go after.
He's not a proper batsman wicket, in my mind.
Any runs he gets is a bonus.
At least that's how I always looked at Kapil Dev - it was the job of the batsmen above him to play proper cricketing shots, follow the coaching manual and all. Kapil was a No.10-11 batsman, who made his way up to No. 7 or so. Can't expect technique from him.

Having said that, and though Pandya does remind me of a young Kapil in terms of attitude, I need to remind myself that Kapil was primarily a bowler (an opening bowler, at that) who was useful with the bat.

Pandya is different in that he's an allrounder from day one. Not the main bowler or batsman in the side - just happens to be handy in both roles.


Good to see you too.

Pandya played well in first inning, so credit to him. He was thought given a chance or two. Dropped by Elgar, but was caught by AB same position in second inning.

This was probably India's best chance to win a game in SA. Bowlers did so well and basically 1 good inning was needed from someone, but the home track bullies disappointed big time.

I was surprised they did not play any warm up games. I am sure they would have chased 208 if they had one or two warm ups. Even SA played a warm up(4 day test against Zim).

At least it was a good entertaining test match unlike the boring hyped up Ashes.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Loose halo » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:48 am

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder haven't you learnt that yet Affie?

I enjoyed the first SA/India test as well but don't ask me if I enjoyed the recent traditionless Sri Lanka/India series.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Katto » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:46 am

Lets face it, the Ashes were as boring as batshit.
Only tests worth watching were the first two.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Loose halo » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:54 am

Katto wrote:Lets face it, the Ashes were as boring as batshit.
Only tests worth watching were the first two.


Then watch the Big Bash. :grin:

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Katto » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:58 am

Loose halo wrote:
Katto wrote:Lets face it, the Ashes were as boring as batshit.
Only tests worth watching were the first two.


Then watch the Big Bash. :grin:


I cbf with that either.
I like test cricket, but I prefer a contest.

Australia tours of India and Bangladesh were a lot more entertaining.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Paddles » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:22 am

Loose halo wrote:Beauty is in the eye of the beholder haven't you learnt that yet Affie?

I enjoyed the first SA/India test as well but don't ask me if I enjoyed the recent traditionless Sri Lanka/India series.


Taditionless?

Since the BCCI refuses to play Pakistan, Indo Sri Lankan contests are very much the Indian Sri Lankas Ashes, or abbreviated, the iSLASHES.
Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsman
A third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:37 am

bolero wrote:India going woefully underprepared and undercooked. Should have gone 3 weeks early instead of thrashing Sri Lanka.

Normally India play their worst in the first test. By the time they get adjusted its the third test and the series is over.


My premonition right again. I dont think the team will henceforth bat as badly as they did in the first test.

But the bowlers surprised me pleasantly.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:02 pm

bolero wrote:I am concerned about the XI.

Pujara , Kohli and Vijay are certainties. Rahul V/s Dhawan is a toss up as Rahul has a better technique and record abroad compared to Dhawan. But Dhawan gives the ' Hayabusa ' like start a la Sehwag. Dhawan's technique though is vulnerable. Again then comes Rahane who has a good record abroad but wretched record at home. Challenging him is Rohit Sharma who can dominate on his day but fail at other times. Sharma is susceptible to the moving ball early on, a candidate for Philander. Then comes Hardik Pandya who is a lottery.

And then the bowlers.

I would say Shami is a certainty along with Umesh Yadav. If India are going in with 3 seamers + Hardik + Ashwin, choice for 3rd seamer would be between Ishant / Bhuvaneshwar / Bumrah. On current form, Bhuvaneshwar but cant say. Ashwin to be sole spinner. I would have much happier if Kuldeep and Chahal had played, unfortunately I am not the selector.


Revisiting after test 1. Was spot on about Dhawan, this is a call team management would have to take.
Rohit failed too , he was chosen over Rahane. Rohit actually got out to Philander. Hardik Pandya - lottery worked.

Umesh Yadav and Ishant were dropped. That will hurt them. If one of them is picked for second test, they may come back with a vengeance.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:18 pm

One more thing, I will surely have Parthiv in the team .He is a decent bat and played in these conditions before.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Boycs » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:29 pm

How does the attitude of Indian press and fans contrast to that of England fans vis a vis the respective current overseas tours?

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Loose halo » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:42 pm

bolero wrote:
bolero wrote:India going woefully underprepared and undercooked. Should have gone 3 weeks early instead of thrashing Sri Lanka.

Normally India play their worst in the first test. By the time they get adjusted its the third test and the series is over.


My premonition right again. I dont think the team will henceforth bat as badly as they did in the first test.

But the bowlers surprised me pleasantly.



Centurion has been rained on these last few days but finer weather expected for the test.

A fourth quick will replace Steyn and India had all the luck in the first test due to the pitch condition.
For India's sake they need they need a flatter pitch.

What SA coach Gibson had to say.

Steyn has been ruled out of the remaining matches with a heel injury, which means one of Duanne Olivier, Lungi Ngidi, Chris Morris or Andile Phehlukwayo will likely be included in the XI for the second and third Tests. Which one will depend on whoever can convince Gibson they're up for the biggest fight. South Africa's new coach is interested in a bowler who is willing to show his fast and furious side.

Gibson wants a four pronged attack against Australia also he says.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:16 am

Boycs wrote:How does the attitude of Indian press and fans contrast to that of England fans vis a vis the respective current overseas tours?


Indian fans are going very hard on Kohli as team arrived in SA 6 days prior to the Test and Kohli and his wife Anushka were seen in photos going to nearby tourist attractions and shopping at mall with 50 % off discount.Kohli was seen carrying the shopping cart for Anushka. Also on New Year's eve, Kohli and Dhawan were see dancing at a public square with their families.

This is hardly ideal preparation for an overseas test.That 50 % discount caption became food for trolls who roasted Kohli.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:33 am

“You could see it hurt a lot of them and it was not a great sight to see them down. So we called for a similar meeting like Galle, where we concentrated more about Centurion and Johannesburg. This Test could have gone either way, and that is what hurt them the most,” a source told Express.

Soon after reaching the hotel, the management threw a surprise party, which left the players surprised. “They have never had one even when they were winning a lot. In times like these, it is important to tell them nothing has changed.”

On Tuesday, the team had optional training with KL Rahul, Ajinkya Rahane, Ishant Sharma, and Parthiv Patel hit­ting the nets as India already seemed t­o ­be exploring options for the second Te­st. The rest took a day off. They depa­rt for Johannesburg on Wednesday, where they will be based for the remainder of the Tests. The team will travel to Centurion via road everyday.

For Centurion, the management could make at least two changes. KL Rahul is most likely to get a look-in, although they still have options for who he will replace. With Kohli revealing preference for a left-hander at the top, Shikhar Dhawan could retain his spot.

The other possible change could be Ajinkya Rahane for Rohit Sharma, but that looks like a distant possibility since one failure is too less a sample size. With regards to Ishant Sharma, the team might assess in Centurion as it is likely to have more bounce than Newlands.

The other surprise could be that of Parthiv Patel ahead of Wridhhiman Saha. The latter can double up as a southpaw replacement for Dhawan, if the latter is benched.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:02 am

I feel Parthiv, Ishant, Rahul, Rahane all should play in the second test.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:04 am

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:04 am

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:08 am

What angered me was all these various snaps of Kohli and his wife posted till before match day. Which means he was busy as a tourist not the ideal preparation for the first test.

I understand that Virat is newly married but one has to take his / her profession seriously. After all , that is his bread and butter.

Anushka after being heavily trolled , has returned to India to pursue her acting assignments.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:20 am

India vs South Africa: Virat Kohli reveals why he picked Shikhar Dhawan over KL Rahul in 1st Test

As Virat Kohli announced India's squad for the opening Test against South Africa in Cape Town on Friday, there wre a few debatable decisions – Shikhar Dhawan being preferred over KL Rahul and Rohit Sharma over Ajinkya Rahane. While the entire Indian batting order, barring Hardik Pandya, failed to impress in Newlands, questions have been raised over Dhawan and Rohit's place in the team considering two batsmen – Rahul and Rahane – who have better stats and technique to counter South African pitches are warming the bench.

When asked about Rahane's exclusion in favour of Rohit, Kohli said that the decision was taken considering current form and not statistical or technical efficiency. "Well, we decided to go on current form. Rohit has scored runs in the last three Test matches that he has played, and he was batting well, even in the series against Sri Lanka," said Kohli in the post-match media conference.

"These things can always be looked at in hindsight thinking what if or what if not. But we decided to go with this combination and current form was definitely the criterion," he added.

When it came to justifying Dhawan's preference over Rahul, Kohli said that the pairing was formed considering the left-right combination.

"Well, a left-hander (Shikhar) always helps. That is what we felt. They have got two including Quinton (de Kock) (and Dean Elgar) in their batting order. It is difficult for bowlers to set up their lines and lengths everytime the strike is rotating well," the Delhi-lad suggested.

The 29-year-old further added, "It has worked for us in the recent past and that is something that definitely a lot of teams go within international cricket because you don't want to the bowlers to settle against one kind of batsman at one line and length, especially with the new ball. We have to try and create plans that we feel will not let the opposition gain momentum from very early on in the game. That is the idea behind that."

http://www.timesnownews.com/sports/cric ... est/187223

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:28 am

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:31 am

Benched quartet keep themselves in contention

On a quiet Tuesday, as the Cape Town suburbs poured into offices in town, four India players woke up nice and early, packed their bags, and made their way to the Newlands nets. This is rare for Indian teams to do: to go straight into the nets after a defeat. The players in the nets were those who didn't play in the XI - KL Rahul, Ajinkya Rahane, Parthiv Patel and Ishant Sharma - but, still, it is a move that suggests India realise they need all the help they can muster after their batting struggled badly and their bowlers let the game slip before making a stellar comeback.

This is something that should please traditionalists such as Sunil Gavaskar who keep asking India to go to the nets and prepare harder after losing. The team's refrain usually has been: "What will an extra nets session achieve?" The team didn't even train a day before this Test, sending Sanjay Bangar, the batting coach, to look at the pitch and address the pre-match press conference, which is usually handled by the captain.

The four players who turned up for nets could well be called upon in the rest of the series. Rahane seemed a certainty to start in Cape Town, but lost out to Rohit Sharma based on "current form". As Shikhar Dhawan struggled with his "minor injury" at the start of the tour, Rahul would have thought he would make the playing XI, but Dhawan recovered, and his left-handness prevailed. Ishant was not well three days before the Test, but the team management says that was not the reason he was left out to make way for Jasprit Bumrah. Parthiv could be a left-field choice if Wriddhiman Saha continues to struggle against quick bowling.

The order in the nets was unusual. One was kept for throwdowns from Bangar, throwdown specialist Raghavindra and fielding coach R Sridhar. The other net was where Ishant and the net bowlers bowled. Two batsmen would go into the nets, and the third would wait outside. They would face an over each and switch: the idle batsman would take one of the nets, the batsman in that net would switch to the other net, and the remaining batsman would watch from the outside.

Ishant bowled with new balls, and the throwdowns were intense, not shy of bouncing the batsmen. This could be more of an individual enterprise than a team order for players who feel they could be asked to play as the series wears on. If they are going to be asked to play, then it makes complete sense to prepare as hard as they can, because the word around is that the pitches up in the north are going to test India even more without necessarily seaming as much as the one in Cape Town did.

If Rahul comes in, he will have to replace Dhawan. To fit Rahane in could be trickier because Rohit now has only had one chance. Ishant's selection, too, may pose a few challenges, considering Bumrah made an impressive comeback in the second innings of the Newlands Test. If he plays as the fourth specialist fast bowler, that could further weaken the batting. The decisions only become tougher as India travel north, but it seems they want everybody prepared should those changes be made.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/ ... contention

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Loose halo » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:28 am

From a neutral observers point of view if Sunil Gavaskar says the team needs more net practice then my mind wanders to the horror stories surrounding the West Indies attitude to training in their recent years following a period of relative affluence.

Surely this is not the case in the India camp?

Heretofore I have imagined them training their backsides off.

paste

This is something that should please traditionalists such as Sunil Gavaskar who keep asking India to go to the nets and prepare harder after losing. The team's refrain usually has been: "What will an extra nets session achieve?" The team didn't even train a day before this Test, sending Sanjay Bangar, the batting coach, to look at the pitch and address the pre-match press conference, which is usually handled by the captain.
Last edited by Loose halo on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:36 am

Loose halo wrote:From a neutral observers point of view if Sunil Gavaskar says the team needs more net practice then my mind wanders to the horror stories surrounding the West Indies attitude to training in their recent years following a period of relative affluence.

Surely this is not the case in the India camp?

Heretofore I have imagined them training their backsides off.


Absolutely. Those snaps posted on social media make me shudder. It all boils down to work ethic and what your priorities are. This daily charade went on till the first test match. Its like they are going for a tour to enjoy / sight seeing / shopping etc.

And there is a rule, they dont practice before the day of the test match. That is ok if you have been practising vigorously, but not at all ok if you havent practised well.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:44 am

bolero wrote:
Loose halo wrote:From a neutral observers point of view if Sunil Gavaskar says the team needs more net practice then my mind wanders to the horror stories surrounding the West Indies attitude to training in their recent years following a period of relative affluence.

Surely this is not the case in the India camp?

Heretofore I have imagined them training their backsides off.


Absolutely. Those snaps posted on social media make me shudder. It all boils down to work ethic and what your priorities are. This daily charade went on till the first test match. Its like they are going for a tour to enjoy / sight seeing / shopping etc.

And there is a rule, they dont practice before the day of the test match. That is ok if you have been practising vigorously, but not at all ok if you havent practised well.


And I dare say it, this casual approach to practise and the lopsided selection were contributing factors in the team's defeat. Chasing 208 would have been possible if atleast 2 top order batsmen had scored 50's. Pujara instead of talking with his mouth about chasing down 350 needed to have shown with the bat. It is a case of so near, yet so far.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:45 am

Further, this would reignite the debate to take wives / girlfriends on tour.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Loose halo » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:51 am

As you (Bolero) said in a previous post you were pleased with the India bowling in the first match and rightly so.

I know for a fact that the ferocity of the Aussie quicks in net practice had their batsmen ducking and weaving but to their ultimate improvement.

Knowing how good the India quicks can be let's hope they net bowl a few short ones to Rohit and Co.The rivalry between bat and ball within a team in training can be a useful asset.
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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:32 am

Loose halo wrote:As you (Bolero) said in a previous post you were pleased with the India bowling in the first match and rightly so.

I know for a fact that the ferocity of the Aussie quicks in net practice had their batsmen ducking and weaving but to their ultimate improvement.

Knowing how good the India quicks can be let's hope they net bowl a few short ones to Rohit and Co.The rivalry between bat and ball within a team in training can be a useful asset.


Yup, hopefully some sense prevails. If you try hard and fail, there is no harm. Talent and ability might be lacking.

If you dont try hard and fail, then it is criminal. There is no excuse.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:47 am

There is no shortage of crazy people in this world. Sample this. What a waste of life !

-------------------

Virat Kohli fan commits suicide after skipper’s cheap dismissal in 1st Test vs South Africa

A 63-year old man from Madhya Pradesh used kerosene to set himself on fire on Friday after India captain Virat Kohli was dismissed for five runs in the first innings of the first Test against South Africa in Newlands, Cape Town. The victim, Babulal Bariya, a retired railway officer living in Ratlam’s Ambedkar Nagar and an avid fan of Virat Kohli was reportedly upset over the fact that the Indian skipper got out cheaply on the first day of the Cape Town Test and thereby took the drastic step. He succumbed to his injuries on Tuesday morning at the hospital where he was being treated.

Speaking to the Indian Express, Pyarsingh Alave, Assistant Sub-inspector, station road police station said, “Bariya retired from railways recently. He was probably drunk and immolated himself while watching the match after Kohli’s dismissal. Prima facie that is what the cause of death looks like. In his dying declaration, Bariya said that he was upset over Kohli’s wicket. The family said that he was a cricket fan.” One of Bariya’s two sons had also committed suicide in 2009, Alave further added.

http://indianexpress.com/article/sports ... a-5017835/

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:52 am

India vs South Africa: Virat Kohli and Co need a disruptive opener in Virender Sehwag mould to tackle hosts

“You can’t just stand there and take whatever is coming your way and not show intent at all,” Virat Kohli said in South Africa. It revealed the approach the skipper wanted his batsmen to take.

It probably also revealed why he had opted for Shikhar Dhawan at the top of the innings. Except that the aggressive Dhawan showed pretty poor judgement in his shot selection and timing.

Frankly, Team India and Kohli need an opener in the Virender Sehwag mould to disrupt the opposition’s plans. Sehwag was not just an attacking batsman who put bowlers under the cosh but was also a street-smart operator.

A couple of intriguing tales of Sehwag’s smartness will bring to the fore the master-batsman’s instant out-of-the-box thinking in tough situations.

In one of his career’s early overseas tour games, the opponents were bowling in the corridor just outside the off stump and harrying the Indian batsmen. Sehwag, noticing this, asked for off stump guard. The pacers instantly changed their line of bowling, hoping to get him bowled around his legs with outswingers. But Sehwag would slowly inch back to a conventional leg-middle stump guard when the bowlers were at the top of their run-up and had their back turned to him. This way their around-the-legs line attempt was ideal for his bread-and-butter leg glance. Before they realised his ploy, he had scored four or five boundaries off his legs and eased the pressure.

In another instance, in an English county game one of the Pakistani pacers was troubling the batsmen with reverse swing. Sehwag did not bother trying to understand the dynamics of the swing. He slammed a ball from the other bowler out of the park. The replaced ball would not reverse and had to be worked upon for a few overs. By then, the batsmen were on their way!

Sehwag’s smart thinking and clean, aggressive batsmanship often terrorised bowlers. Pakistan bore the brunt of this as one triple ton and two double tons off their bowlers show. Importantly, because of his aggressive streak, opposition bowlers concentrated on getting rid of him as soon as possible. This allowed other batsmen to gradually slip into their role. It would be no exaggeration to state that many of India’s Test wins during the period owed their success to Sehwag and his brilliant disruptive batting.

Kohli probably wants Dhawan to play that role. But the opener is a long way off from surviving, let alone putting pressure on the opposition bowlers.

Perhaps the constant interaction and exposure during the Indian Premier League with Indian players has made the South African bowlers wisen up to Dhawan’s ways. In the first Test at least, he didn’t get room on the off-side to play his cut shots and drives. Nor did he get anything pitched up on the leg. The South African pacers targeted his right armpit to cramp him up and leave him hopping around.

Dhawan needs to be a lot smarter at the crease. He has to get the South Africans to bowl in his area of strength. In the meantime they won’t lose interest in bodyline bowling unless he learns to duck or sway out of the way consistently. The hook shot on fast, bouncy tracks is neither his nor Rohit Sharma’s strong suits.

Murali Vijay and Cheteshwar Pujara are laborious prodders. They would be good on true bounce, fast pitches. But the ones that support seam bowling, like the one at Cape Town, are a different matter altogether. The seaming ball is like a lottery; the batsman does not know which one has his number. If the batsman is lucky, he’d get beaten. If not, he’d snick or get trapped in front or bowled.

To get back to the Sehwag mantra, he was not a quick runner between the wickets. But because the opposition would invariably have a couple of fielders very deep for him it allowed him to rotate strike.

India’s top order too needs to do that. Belting the ball to far corners is one thing. Being nimble and rotating strike is another. It would help to take pressure off the batsmen. They should aim for that, at least in the initial stages of the innings.

In the first Test, Hardik Pandya did a terrific job in disrupting the bowlers in the first essay. Even R Ashwin tried a different strategy by standing well outside the crease to counter the reverse-swing of Vernon Philander. Others too need to shake the South Africans out of their comfort zone.

Not everyone can bat with the destructive brilliance of Sehwag. But surely, as Pandya and Ashwin have shown, there are other ways to be disruptive. At least one top order batsman needs to deliver thus.

http://www.firstpost.com/firstcricket/s ... 96071.html

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Aneesmoha » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:06 am

The problem is they can play all the practice games or have all the net practices they want but the pitches they will be practicing on will be nowhere near the condition of the pitches they will be playing on.

The best way is to see if there are technical deficiencies that need to be looked at. And hope the players can make the needed adjustments.

Newlands nowhere near the fastest or bounciest pitch in SA and if they struggled there it may be more difficult up north. However Kholi showed the last time they were here that he has what it takes to succeed on those pitches. However no Steyn could make it easier

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:18 am

To me the secret to beat South Africa is to be disruptive.

If you are orderly, predictable, South Africa will beat the opposition 10 times out of 10. They follow video analysis, methodical , systematic and clinical. Hansie Cronje's team was nearly robotic in its approach.

Yet South Africa has yet never won a World Cup although they have always been brutal in the league stages.

Just like Pandya acted as a disrupter, India will have to do something out of the set process to beat South Africa. Dhawan has not done that.

I hope Parthiv is sent as an opener.

Remember Faf's words " We prepared for the other Indian seamers, but didnt prepare for Bumrah". The words give it out, Faf and team were taken by surprise by Bumrah's inclusion.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Aneesmoha » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:05 am

When it comes to world cups it always seems that an adoration goes against the team.

1992 on track to beat England in the Semis 22 off 13 before the rain hit. No Duckworth- Lewis after- rain stops 22 off 1
1996 A west Indies team that was poor though out the group stages decided to pitch up for one game
1999 Alan Donald Loses his bat game tied
2003 The entire Country forgets how to count
2007 Jacques Kallis playing the innings of his life breaks down with cramps
2011 Middle Order Meltdown
2015 New Zealand down a total that 9.99999999/10 South Africa would defend

We are starting to think the team is cursed some how.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:20 am

Aneesmoha wrote:When it comes to world cups it always seems that an adoration goes against the team.

1992 on track to beat England in the Semis 22 off 13 before the rain hit. No Duckworth- Lewis after- rain stops 22 off 1
1996 A west Indies team that was poor though out the group stages decided to pitch up for one game
1999 Alan Donald Loses his bat game tied
2003 The entire Country forgets how to count
2007 Jacques Kallis playing the innings of his life breaks down with cramps
2011 Middle Order Meltdown
2015 New Zealand down a total that 9.99999999/10 South Africa would defend

We are starting to think the team is cursed some how.


Sorry man, didnt want to bring it up. My point is, South Africa will have everything going for it, yet somehow the 'X' factor or Lady Luck eludes them.

Remember what Steve Waugh told Gibbs when he dropped him "You have just dropped the World Cup, son".

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Aneesmoha » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:46 am

No worries I go into world cups pessimistic and will only celebrate once they actually win one.

Again that catch. was the first time ever that Gibbs' quick flick after catching the ball went wrong. he had been doing it for YEARS before and people warned him against doing it.. ironically that was the day the debate about his race was ended...lol.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby raja » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:37 pm

Apparently Pandya was dropped when he was on 15. He went on to make 93.
If that chance had been taken, BCCI would've been in far greater trouble.
And Pandya would've joined the rest of the gang as a batting failure in the Test.

Everyone's going gaga over Pandya right now - and I like the guy - but let's not hype him up so early in his career.

Even Kapil has said that Pandya is better than him and will achieve more.

Yeah, a guy who has played 4 Tests!

I remember how Indians built up Irfan Pathan - and what that led to.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby raja » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:48 pm

I'd like to see Chris Morris replace Steyn.
Morris is one of my favourite cricketers.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:40 pm

Chris Morris is superb.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Boycs » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:42 pm

He was a bit of an angry man in England

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:50 pm

My postmortem of team India.

1. Batsmen looked like fishes out of water, could not play the bounce or seam movement.Wickets looked like another planet than India.

2. When you have the South Africans on the ropes at 12 for 3, go for the jugular.Instead AB and Faf were allowed to counterattack, one or two boundary balls were given.every over.Where did Bumrah forget his Yorker ? He didn't bowl a single one which surprised me.Shami looked like he was woken up.from bed at the wrong time and bowled all over the place. Bumrah was taken for runs and was expensive.

3. Again SA at 142 for 5, again you allow De Kock, Philander, Maharaj and Rabada to add useful runs. Maharaja dropped straightforward slip catch to Dhawan went on to make 35.Bumrah no yorkers again to the tail.What should have been 200 ended up being 286. Margin of victory for SA 72 runs.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:57 pm

This is where Ishant is useful.He bowls a holding line from one end and won't be taken for boundaries.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Paddles » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:45 am

Boycs wrote:He was a bit of an angry man in England


Prolly not helped by the fact he bowled so much crap at the Oval and was tonked to tall parts and dropped for the next test.

Talented cricketer, but that was a very ordinary performance. Made all the worse with Philander being ill. Morkel really stood up, Rabada just played his merry way as we expect from him for a while now, but Morris sat down. Failing with the bat in the 2nd innings of the match wouldn't have helped much. By the time he batted in the 4th, the game was pretty much beyond reach.
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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:01 am

The below news comes as a bit of shock to me. Bhuvi would always be first choice for me. I will replace Bumrah with Ishant.

-----------------

Unwell Ishant Sharma made way for Bhuvneshwar Kumar in 1st Test

JOHANNESBURG: On the morning of January 5, the first day of the Test match in Cape Town, Ishant Sharma woke up with a severe headache, bordering on the feverish. In a couple of hours, he was expected to buckle-up for the game scheduled 10.30 am local time. Things just did not fall in place.
Left to choose between Bhuvneshwar Kumar and Umesh Yadav, the team management settled for the former. And the start that the 27-year-old Bhuvi gave Team India - 4-87 in the first innings and overall a six-wicket haul - cemented his place in the eleven going forward. Ishant's loss turned out to be his gain.

There, however, was no doubts whatsoever in the mind of the team management over playing Jasprit Bumrah, who received his Test cap on the morning of the game. India's bowling coach Bharat Arun, who has tracked Bumrah's career for close to seven years now, was convinced.
Those who've seen Bumrah go about from close quarters say "his clarity of mind is everything about him". The only thing that Bumrah does off the field, they say, is "focus on how he bowled and how he should have bowled" on a particular day or occasion. "The best thing about him is his ability to distance himself from any kind of distraction," they add.

On the morning of the fourth day of the first Test, when South Africa resumed batting with overnight batsmen Kagiso Rabada (nightwatchman) and Hashim Amla at the crease, the mood was upbeat inside the hosts' dressing room. With a lead of 142 and with eight wickets in hand, South Africa were beginning to look extremely dangerous. The entire extent of Bumrah's effort cannot be ascertained through his second innings figures that read 3-39 from 11.2 overs. It's the sheer audacity of the spell - one that shook the South African batting line-up, sent Faf du Plessis and Quinton de Kock packing, and made the hosts sit back and take note - that tells the real story.

On that morning, as the Indian team prepared to leave the hotel to make their way to the ground, the coach, captain and a very select support staff called for a meeting of the bowlers. Arun, who comes with a coaching experience surpassing 21 years and one whose methods had even left the late Frank Tyson impressed years ago, spoke to the bowlers about the need to stick to a line and a plan.

There were strengths to be put at use, weaknesses to be explored, and the bowlers - with an average age of 26 if off-spinner R Ashwin has to be set aside - needed to gain a good understanding of the wicket that had just witnessed unrelenting showers a day before.
Making use of the moisture settling in the tracks and bowling the right lengths would be of acute importance.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spo ... 453104.cms

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby raja » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:34 am

bolero wrote:This is where Ishant is useful.He bowls a holding line from one end and won't be taken for boundaries.

To be honest, in a Test match, I'd much rather have wicket-taking bowlers, than bowlers who bowl a holding line.
The difference between a Venkataraghavan and a Chandra. :grin:

A bowler who bowls a holding line in a Test has his use - but only if the Test has developed into a limited-overs like situation.
It shouldn't be the reason you pick a bowler in the side.
A Test bowler's job is first and foremost to pick wickets.

Not saying Ishant doesn't. He does - just a general point I'm making about holding vs attacking.

It would also be nice if Ishant made the batsman play a little more. Most of the times he doesn't.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:44 am

raja wrote:
bolero wrote:This is where Ishant is useful.He bowls a holding line from one end and won't be taken for boundaries.

To be honest, in a Test match, I'd much rather have wicket-taking bowlers, than bowlers who bowl a holding line.
The difference between a Venkataraghavan and a Chandra. :grin:

A bowler who bowls a holding line in a Test has his use - but only if the Test has developed into a limited-overs like situation.
It shouldn't be the reason you pick a bowler in the side.
A Test bowler's job is first and foremost to pick wickets.

Not saying Ishant doesn't. He does - just a general point I'm making about holding vs attacking.

It would also be nice if Ishant made the batsman play a little more. Most of the times he doesn't.


Raja, my point is he would not have given so many boundary balls.If he had kept a check at one end, pressure would have been created. Here boundaries were leaking from both ends. Ishant was hostile against Sri Lanka on Indian pitches. he was consistently bowling 140 kmph + and better than than the general fourth stump rubbish we have seen him bowl.

I take your point. However in a tightly contested match like the last one, it could be the difference between victory and defeat.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby raja » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:05 am

Yes, Morris was disappointing at the Oval.
He's much better than that.

In a sense, he reminds me of Tim Bresnan.
Maybe a poor man's Bresnan. :-)

I'd never heard of Morris till he got into the IPL.
He really impressed me with his attitude.
Come to think of it, had never heard of Ryan Harris either till I saw him in the IPL for Deccan Chargers.
The first thing that struck me about him was his attitude.
It was much later I realised that he had so much more to offer.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:10 am

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:12 am

On a lighter note, the fact that there is so much competition for the fast bowling slots portends well.

We are not even discussing Umesh Yadav who must be feeling what he has done wrong.

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Paddles » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:16 am

raja wrote:Yes, Morris was disappointing at the Oval.
He's much better than that.

In a sense, he reminds me of Tim Bresnan.
Maybe a poor man's Bresnan. :-)

I'd never heard of Morris till he got into the IPL.
He really impressed me with his attitude.
Come to think of it, had never heard of Ryan Harris either till I saw him in the IPL for Deccan Chargers.
The first thing that struck me about him was his attitude.
It was much later I realised that he had so much more to offer.


Imo Morris is a more explosive cricketer than Bresnan with both bat and ball, just hasn't yet proved to be more effective Bresnan as yet very early in his career. If comparing to England players - Morris is a #8 to Stokes #6. At their best it is '100mph' type cricket, at Bresnan's best it was smooth and clinical efficiency without a lot of fuss.

But I expect more from Morris in tests than merely back of a length long hops or full pitch half vollies sprayed around which he served at the oval.
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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:19 am

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby bolero » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:22 am

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Re: South Africa vs India: 3 Test, 6 ODI & 3 T20I; January 5 - February 28, 2018

Postby Paddles » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:29 am

bolero wrote:Image


Got ones for the Vettorri, Taylor and even BMac eras of NZ captaincy? I think it will be more players pro rata at a guess. Difference is going to be that India were majority winning where NZ until BMac were losing. But even under BMac - the changes were constant. Santner, Vettori, Craig, Martin, possibly Patel and Astle under Taylor in his last tour as captain were spinners used that I can think of just off top of my head. Let alone our endless searches for openers. Even in BMac era we churned through players - Neesh, Anderson, Munro (he batted lower but same role) and poss Ryder at 6 alone. Martin, Wagner, Henry, Bracewell and more to support Soult.
Last edited by Paddles on Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsman
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