R vs D and the argument. Help needed here.

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GpeL
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R vs D and the argument. Help needed here.

Postby GpeL » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:57 am

This is an argument that I got into yesterday. So let me see you friends have tosay.

My position was, while the rights of FOE and FOS while should be absolute, ALL rights come with duties.. So if one gets a particular right, it is implicit that there are, as a part of any arrangement, duties.. i.e if you are being rewarded with a certain privilege, you are expected to 'pay' for it in some way shape or form.

For example, if Driving is your right, Following traffic rules is your duty.. Of course when it comes to that example, there are 'Laws' that are written down in books which can be invoked against you if you fail to do your part.. i.e you can be fined for driving on the wrong side of the road for example (except in UK'esq systems where you drive on the wrong side always and if you drive on the right side, you are wrong).. but then even there, if you drive on the right side, you can be penalized because you drove on the wrong side kinds..

Now the other person says that what I am arguing is that we don't have the right to break a law.. but duties as such cannot be imposed/enforced. Like for example it says in the constitution (allegedly) 'duty to strive for excellence' or something to that effect. Now I agree that such things like striving for excellence, shame etc are 'personal' and cannot really be enforced, I argued that if those duties are not followed, you can be hauled up like for instance, it is the duty of a person to be a good father/husband/wife and if not your children can be taken away by the law or you can be hauled up in divorce court.. but aparantly even those are as per 'laws' written in books and if those weren't there, it cannot happen.. So I argued that when a police man fails to do his duty he can be hauled up.. to that also, well he is being 'paid' to do that 'duty' and therefore it is not 'duty' in the real sense of the word.

Now I need help of Paddles to paddle me thru this conundrum.. how do I explain to this numb nut that while Rights are bestowed upon a particular indivitual/class of individuals there is a duty associated with it and one can be 'hauled' up for failing for those duties be it written down in the law/constitution or whatever those books are or not.

Am I making myself clear as to the issue here?

Are there duties that fall under the 'morality' umbrella that can be enforced upon a person without it having been mentioned in any of the 'books' be it religious, legal, constitutional or any other such 'books' (Novels fantasy stories excluded)

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Re: R vs D and the argument. Help needed here.

Postby Boycs » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:06 pm

I would say there are duties of morality etc not defined by laws written down, yes. For one thing, presumably our written laws were once derived from unwritten thoughts on behaviour and decorum that collectively some groups of people had.

Maybe those non-codified laws are judged not in courts of law but in the metaphorical courts of the mind. Guilt, senses of duty and obligation.

Cheating on your girlfriend, falsifying your times on a bike ride with your mates, buying a meal pre-made and saying you cooked it. These things aren't unlawful but they're immoral

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Re: R vs D and the argument. Help needed here.

Postby GpeL » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:19 pm

Agreed but those are white lies.. as they call it.. especially the bike ride with a friend and especially ones while in the nude.. but..my question is.. While exercise of a right implies some duties.. are there some that actually can be "enforced" even if not written in some sort of a book (excepting the ten commandments).

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Re: R vs D and the argument. Help needed here.

Postby GpeL » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:09 pm

What? And how does one get hauled up for that? The wifey or hubby goes and complains?